Talk:Cerritos, California

City Council Controversy

This is a section that has been set up to discuss the deletion of the properly sourced Cerritos, California#City Council Controversy section, since User:Publicdefender99, who keeps deleting the information, has asked "perhaps we can come to some kind of an agreement?". ^BlankVerse 08:14, 21 September 2006 (UTC)

• I believe the section should be kept in its entirety because it serves as a counterweight to the dominant perspective that Cerritos is a "perfect and flawless community" free from political bickering, and because it involves a larger California issue with the possible election of one of Cerritos' own into the state legislature. AManSac 17:31, 21 September 2006 (UTC)
  • Having the information in the article "as a counterweight" is the wrong reason for including it in an encyclopedia article. The information is, however, something that I think should be in the Cerritos article, and should be in the Grace Hu when an article gets written for her.
  • You do bring up the point that the current article, besides being way too long, is way too civic boosterish, and needs a good NPOV editing, as well as a good weed whacking.^BlankVerse 22:14, 21 September 2006 (UTC)
• An aside: There have been so many recent controversies, with some councilmen even going to jail, that there almost needs to be a Wikipedia article on recent Sothern California political corruption and controversy. The odds are that most of those city's articles haven't been updated, but desperately need to be. ^BlankVerse 22:14, 21 September 2006 (UTC)

What year did the whole controversy occur? It's not mentioned in the article. Jumping cheese ^Contact 00:33, 23 September 2006 (UTC)

The approval for the housing project was between March-June 2001 when she was on Council, but Hu's case was decided in 2005. AManSac 09:58, 23 September 2006 (UTC)

The coverage of the controversy should stay in the article because it has been discussed during at least two city council meetings, the information is all in pubic records and had been properly cited, and the controversy has even made front page coverage in the Long Beach Press-Telegram (see Ethical issues dog Hu as Nov. election nears). On the other hand, the coverage is currently unbalanced. As I wrote at User talk:Publicdefender99#Hey!: "As for coming "to some kind of an agreement": The Press-Telegram article includes Grace Hu's explanations, so you can include a paragraph on those explanations in the Cerritos, California#City Council Controversy section, and then properly cite the LB P-T article." ^BlankVerse 08:07, 5 October 2006 (UTC)

I strongly believe that this information is inappropriate in this article, so I'm removing this section . This is the article on the city of Cerritos, California, not on local news items. I'm sure there are lots of other things the city council has discussed recently and lots of other local news stories besides the Grace Hu affair, but she gets 2 paragraphs, and nothing else gets anything. Frankly, Grace Hu just isn't that important to Cerritos that we need to discuss her -- this isn't Wikinews. Balancing it out by including Hu's response will not help things. If there was an article on Grace Hu, this information would be appropriate there... but Grace Hu probably isn't notable by Wikipedia standards. Mangojuice^talk 13:12, 17 October 2006 (UTC)

I've reverted the deletion. This isn't about Hu, but about Cerritos, as you correctly state. City Council politics are very important to a city. This incident of corruption was notable enough to result in state action. Many topics with more minor notabuility get coverage too. (Sculpture garden Rose Parade, Capital Improvement Projects, etc). -Will Beback 19:48, 17 October 2006 (UTC)

This really should be taken to Wikinews. It's hardly an incident that will be of any substantial long-term encyclopedic interest. If city articles listed every minor scandal in a city's history, they'd be 500kb each. FCYTravis 09:51, 19 October 2006 (UTC)

I suggest that those interested in seeing how a city article should be written, see San Francisco, California. Go check its "Government" section. You'll find no micro-detailed city government listing nor will you find any mention of the umpteen squillion political dustups in the city's history. None of them are encyclopedic enough to merit a mention in the main article. I suggest that this one does not, either. FCYTravis 10:01, 19 October 2006 (UTC)

You can't compare San Francisco with its 750,000 residents to Cerritos, with its 50,000 residents. --Banana Republic 12:43, 19 October 2006 (UTC)

The comparison with San Franciso is inaccurate. While the main article does not have much detail about its government, there are so many articles about the topic that there is a special category just for them, Category:Government of San Francisco. There are entire articles about the Board of Supervisors (essentially its city council) and the mayorship. I don't think that the Cerritos City Council merits an article of its own but it certainly merits coverage here. -Will Beback 20:10, 19 October 2006 (UTC)

Would opponents of this material suport deleting all of the SF government articles as being "unencyclopedic minutia"[1]? Alternatively, maybe we should move this Cerritos City Council material to a separate article? Will Beback 21:44, 19 October 2006 (UTC)

The city council controversy is significant enough to deserve a place on the Cerritos page. As a compromise, how about trimming it down? Jumping cheese ^Contact 23:11, 19 October 2006 (UTC)

That's a good idea. It does seem a bit long. -Will Beback 23:27, 19 October 2006 (UTC)

I support a brief, balanced summary of the issues (incorporating Hu's response in the LB Press-Telegram article). A more detailed discussion would be appropriate for an article specifically on Grace Hu. I am strongly opposed to excising the entire discussion of the controvery from the article. ^BlankVerse 00:47, 20 October 2006 (UTC)

I went ahead and reduced the size of the section a little bit and did my best to summerize the scandal further. BlankVerse, if you want, go ahead and incorporate the LB Press Telegram article--I haven't seen it...so I'm not sure if I missed an important point or not. AManSac 07:00, 20 October 2006 (UTC)

I incorporated information from the Long Beach Press-Telegram article [2] (which is still on line, if anyone wants to look at it). I also toned down the first paragraph of the section some, as well as corrected one factual error.

I had also changed the referencing to match Wikipedia guidelines (see WP:CITE). but that part of my changes has been reverted to the previous non-standard method of references. ^BlankVerse 06:03, 21 October 2006 (UTC)

City Image

• I originally added the "City Image" section a while ago, and in retrospect, I realize that it's a little too much superfluous information and adds too much of a jingoistic tone to the article. To boot, I don't think many of the points have proper citations. It's also a step in reducing this article's length and therefore, I'm going back on my creation and deleting that section. AManSac 00:03, 27 September 2006 (UTC)

It is interesting that the last anon IP to add the City Image section back in was 65.116.143.83 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · filter log · WHOIS · RDNS · RBLs · http · block user · block log), which a rDNS shows as app2.ci.cerritos.ca.us. In other words, the edit was from Cerritos City Hall. You can also see from their block log] that the IP has been blocked several times. There is, however, the possibility that the IP is also shared with the Cerritos Public Library (which also has IP range 206.17.120.0 - 206.17.120.255).

I did a quick check, but almost all of the other anon IPs that I checked were from Earthlink. Still, it might be an idea to start keeping track of questionable and vandal edits on the Cerritos article. ^BlankVerse 06:54, 1 October 2006 (UTC)

Why do I think that slmost all of the City Image seciton does not belong? The Cerritos, California article could become a Wikipedia Featured article, although it it has failed FA reviews twice so far. Part of the reason for that failure is that the article is currently H-U-G-E, and reads more like a cross between a Chamber of Commerce promotional brochure, a city manager's report, and a school report. Among other things, the article needs some serious NPOVing to reduce the PR language in the article to help turn it into an encyclopedia article. There is also quite a bit of information that is extraneous and can be excised. For just one example, the entire paragraph on Advisory boards is unnecessary. Almost every city has them. For more examples, almost every section that also has its own article (e.g. Cerritos Auto Square and Los Cerritos Center) need to be pared down, as well as given a better explanation of why the subject of that section is important to the city of Cerritos.

So what is specifically wrong with the City Image section? Part of it is the PR language (e.g. "meticulously maintaining lawns of neglectful residents"), and excessive detail ("Restricting store signage that is not lit well at night and fall on top of an opaque background").

There are a few things in that section that are pretty unusual for entire cities, such as the outlawing drive-through windows and the parking prohibitions (although similar restrictions can be found in planned communities and gated communities). I would support cutting the section down to two or three of those items, then finding proper citations to support the fact that the ordinaces are unusual, and then finding a better title for that section. ^BlankVerse 07:22, 8 October 2006 (UTC)

AManSac, I understand that you originally wrote the section city image, but that does not mean you own it. Please quit removing it, as there is some important information in that section that make Cerritos unique. --Banana Republic 07:47, 8 October 2006 (UTC)

Please don't add the entire section back up. If you wish, please discuss here what particular ordinances you'd like to see mentioned on the article, and perhaps we can make a compromise by incorporating it somewhere in the Cerritos page without adding another section. AManSac 07:59, 8 October 2006 (UTC)

Please do not remove entire sections. That is considered vandalism (yes, even if you originally wrote the section -- BTW the section has evolved since you originally wrote it). The ordinances mentioned in the section make Cerritos unique among the surrounding cities (and for that matter most cities in the world). I can equally challenge you to discuss what specific ordinances would you like to remove from the section, that you think are superflous. --Banana Republic 08:06, 8 October 2006 (UTC)

If anything, the only ordinances that I could see remaining is what BlankVerse mentioned above...namely, parking and drive-thru issues. I'm all for incorporating those aspects in some part of the article, rather than making a totally new section for it. It could even be made a bullet point in the trivia/quick facts section. Although their common theme involves motor vehicles, I don't think a separate motor vehicle regulation section is the best way to add it in. Look, I'm all pro-Cerritos myself...but if you ever want this article to even be considered for something close to a featured article status (which it already has failed on a couple of occassions), you're going to have to work with us to make some major changes in its current context rather than just throwing everything in and having others sort it out. AManSac 08:15, 8 October 2006 (UTC)

Look, I also understand you reported my reverts, Banana Republic, but be sure that in the future, you confront issues that you feel should be included in the article head on and proactively in the proper forums (like this talk page), rather than sneaking off and not making your opinions known and trying to block people who want to improve the page. AManSac 19:59, 8 October 2006 (UTC)

Featured article?

There is a list of cities that have already qualified as Featured articles at Wikipedia:WikiProject Cities#Wikipedia featured articles. Two California cities have already achived FA status, San Francisco, California and San Jose, California. It would be nice to see a city from Southern California also achive FA status.

If you look at the Cerritos, California Todo list, there is a very long list of issues from the Peer review and Featured article candidate processes.

Besides those issues, I think there several of the photos in the Cerritos article came from the official City of Cerritos website. Those images are copyrighted and also don't qualify for use on the Wikipedia under the tightened guidelines for Fair use on the English-language Wikipedia. Any of the photos that can be identified as coming from the Cerritos website should be reported as copyright violations, and then attempts should be made to find replacements for them. ^BlankVerse 08:37, 8 October 2006 (UTC)

Notable Residents

Does this include people who were born here, but now live elsewhere? If not, there isn't really anywhere to put them. Ygoloxelfer 16:24, 11 May 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Cerritos Library.jpg

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FYI

http://www.economist.com/world/na/displaystory.cfm?story_id=9655054&CFID=15729487&CFTOKEN=39271809 —The preceding unsigned comment was added by AllyUnion (talk • contribs) 22:32, August 21, 2007 (UTC).

• Nice article, thanks for sharing! President Rhapsody 23:33, 21 August 2007 (UTC)

Unsourced material

The following is unsourced information:

• According to the California Association of Realtors (CAR), the median price of a single-family home in Cerritos is approximately $749,000 as of August 2006.
• The last dairy building in Cerritos was demolished in March 1989.
• Cerritos Avenue does not pass through anywhere in the City of Cerritos, but rather, runs generally east-west just south of Cerritos in Cypress and Los Alamitos in Orange County.
• Other names for Cerritos that were considered were "Los Coyotes" (turned down because of a negative connotation, though more historically accurate), and "Freeway City" (lacked the sophistication and class that the Cerritos Chamber of Commerce desired).
• Cerritos has the first and largest deployment of a wireless-fidelity Internet network (Wi-Fi) in the world provided by Aiirmesh. The coverage area completely encompasses all 8.9 square miles (23.1 km²) and allows subscribers with a wireless Ethernet card to access the Internet from anywhere within the city boundaries.
• The Cerritos Center for the Performing Arts' most celebrated audience member has been His Royal Highness Charles, Prince of Wales, attending a performance of Henry VI by the Royal Shakespeare Company, in November 1994.
• The City of Cerritos has received the title of "Tree City USA" for the seventh straight year by the National Arbor Day Foundation.
• It is illegal to park your car on the street during the hours of 2:00am to 5:00am without a pass. A pass will only be given if the resident has more than 4 cars. (Two in the garage and two in the driveway). This helps the Los Angeles County Sheriff’s Department quickly find suspicious vehicles in the area.

While this is interesting, we can't use it unless you provide a source. Also, none of this is really trivia, as trivia by its definition is "unimportant information" - it therefore shouldn't be in a trivia section but instead the information should be incorporated into the main article. - Tbsdy lives (talk) 00:30, 20 September 2008 (UTC)

Image copyright problem with Image:Pioneer And South Street Historical Photo.jpg

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Links

Just FYI, but there are a few broken links to images that were maybe deleted. --Blemo 23 ɸ ^TALK • _{CONTRIBUTIONS} • _EMAIL • _MESSAGE 05:43, 28 February 2010 (UTC)

More milk than Wisconsin???

"At its peak, the City produced more dairy than any other place in the nation, surpassing even the entire state of Wisconsin." Really? A city of 8.9 sq miles produced more dairy than a state of 65,000 sq miles? I could believe that California produces more dairy than Wisconsin (it actually does), and that Cerritos was the single largest dairy producing city in CA (no idea if this is true), but there's no way one small city surpasses the entire state of Wisconsin. This fact is unsourced, and I'm removing it.192.104.39.2 (talk) 19:55, 21 July 2010 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 6 August 2014

• Louis Sung (2008) - NCAA track and field athlete for the University of Dallas.

Louisxsung (talk) 04:48, 6 August 2014 (UTC)

 Not done - as shown by the red-link we do not have an article on Louis Sung - No article = no inclusion - Arjayay (talk) 12:19, 6 August 2014 (UTC)

References

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