Talk:Roy Bourgeois

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Untitled[edit]

Began article. Please help me! Edwin 10:29, 7 Jan 2005 (UTC)

"American"[edit]

I disagree with using the term "American" to describe someone from the United States. Truly, "America" includes all of North, Central, and South America. Not simply the United States.

I suggest this rewording, leaving out the word "American": Father Roy Bourgeois, M.M. is a priest in the Maryknoll order...

User:Michaelthesecond 21:14, 18 Feb 2006 (UTC)

and I disagree with using the term "United States" to describe the United States of America. Truly, "United States" includes both the United States of America and the United States of Mexico. --Descendall 05:00, 27 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]
it's pretty well established on WP that we use American for someone from the US. While this may not be optimal, or what is done in other languages (like Spanish) it is the most common English usage. Specify North American or "The Americas" when wanting to specify a non-US thing/person. EdwinHJ | Talk 21:28, 18 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Even if it wasn't established that "American" refers to someone from the US, it is still an accurate description since he is from North America. Regardless of one's definition of American, it always includes citizens of the United States. Whether or not it exclusively applies to US citizens is the point of contention.--burnt in effigy 04:50, 20 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

"Attempted" ordination[edit]

I am not sure that I think the change to insert the word "attempted" accurately describes the ordination. It seems that there are 2 POVs in the article. The RCWP are pretty intent on describing what they did as an ordination through claims of apostolic succession. However, the Vatican POV is that any ordination involving a woman is invalid, due to canon law.

Calling it an "attempted" ordination makes it sound like the ceremony did not take place or was stopped somehow. There was certainly an ordination, it's just a matter of whether or not the Vatican recognizes it. Could this be described in a different way? Perhaps, "Despite the Vatican position declaring all attempts to ordain women as invalid, Fr. Roy concelebrated and delivered the homily at the ordination ceremony of a Roman Catholic woman." Would that make it more clear? Triznitch (talk) 01:25, 15 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The word "attempted" was added in as a qualifier to the ordination ceremony by 24.217.227.190 again. As I put this up on the talk page before changing this last time, please discuss this before re-adding the word. There was extra language added to the article to make it clear that this is not an official ordination. The ceremony has been qualified with an explanation that the Vatican has declared all such ordinations invalid and I removed the word "priest" from the end of the phrase "Roman Catholic woman priest" so as not to confuse anyone into thinking she has been officially ordained a priest. Please discuss if you think this is not accurate. Triznitch (talk) 13:44, 16 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Excommunication[edit]

May 8 2012 Re Fr. Bourgeois and his Phila talk of 5/6/12 at St. Luke's Episcopal Church. I am a WW II veteran who had a great Maryknoll priest friend (FR. Don Hessler) who had spent years in JAP/POW camps having been imprisoned as a military chaplain. His Order has always had gutsy men in it; and it must have been as a POW that he perfected God's gift of patience and hope. I admire the work Fr. Roy has already done in persuit of women's equality in our church, but not his impatience. This battle is not up to one man, and not at the lost of a priestly vocation. His ORDER has not yet decided on this and I for one was not willing to attend his talk for that one reason. I am trying to work for the priests of our archdiocee thru our new archbishop who I think wants to do the right thing. Fr. Roy is heroic but misguided, for whch God may love him all the more.

76.99.18.141 (talk) 16:34, 8 May 2012 (UTC)--76.99.18.141 (talk) 16:34, 8 May 2012 (UTC) "Those who know aren't talking and those who are talking don't know." I believe it is premature to declare Fr. Bourgeois excommunicated. The 30 days may have expired, but there is no public communication from the CDF or Fr. Bourgeois about his status. The most official info I can find is a non-commital communique from Maryknoll -[reply]

November 12, 2008

Statement regarding Father Roy Bourgeois

The Maryknoll Society did receive a confidential communiqué from the Congregation for the Doctrine of Faith, and forwarded the contents of that communiqué to Father Bourgeois. The Society continues to respect the confidentiality of the communications between the Congregation of the Doctrine of the Faith and Father Bourgeois.

The Society will abide by the decision of the Congregation. At the same time, we have an obligation to ensure the canonical rights of our members, and we will fulfill that obligation.[1]

I think this press release plus the previous one from August 19, 2008 [2] indicate that Maryknoll still considers Fr. Bourgeois one of their own - so the comments of "formerly in the Maryknoll order" are premature and need correcting. --BirdieGalyan (talk) 21:44, 12 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

When Marcel Lefebvre was excommunicated, I believe he did remain a retired member of the Spiritans. So, it is possible to be excommunicated and still have a semi-official connection to a religious order. Another possible example is Martin Luther, who had been ordained as an Augustinian priest prior to his excommunication. The reason for this is that excommunication is not the same thing as laicization, meaning that it doesn't automatically remove clerical status, which is considered to be an indelible sacrament, like baptism or marriage. ADM (talk) 07:51, 6 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

My name is John Drew. I am a close friend of Fr. Roy Bourgeois with whom I have dinner at least once a month. On Wednesday, February 23, 2011, Roy and I had dinner and read this Wikipedia post which states that he was excommunicated. This is untrue. Fr. Bourgeois received a letter from the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith which stated that he had thirty days in which to recant his belief and public statements that supported the ordination of women or he would be excommunicated latae sententiae. Fr. Bourgeois wrote the Congregation stating his beliefs and that, in conscience, he could not recant. As of Wednesday, February 23, 2011, the Congregation has yet to respond to his letter, has never acknowledged receiving the letter, nor has Fr. Bourgeois been notified of any excommunication. He remains an active member of the Maryknoll order and continues to speak out against the exclusion of women from the priesthood. It's fairly simple to check my statements. One can phone the Maryknoll headquarters in New York or simply phone Fr. Bourgeois. John Drew 02:13, 26 February 2011 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by JohnDrew2 (talk • contribs)

Notability[edit]

I think the article clearly establishes notability -- he is the director of a lobbying organization that is prominent not only in the GA area but nationally. He is a leader in the Call to Action movement of the Catholic Church, has been publicly excommunicated for participating in womens ordination and has testified before (several) courts of law as an expert in US foreign policy in Latin America. I am removing the notability tag--some of the other issue tags may have a valid point. EdwinHJ | Talk 15:48, 27 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

No longer like a review; more balanced[edit]

At the top of the article, at this writing, is this notice: {{Review}} I humbly request permission to now remove it. Here's why: I just updated the article to reflect Bourgeois's dismissal from both the Maryknolls and the priesthood this week; and, along the way I just kinda' cleaned it up... a lot. In the process, I also tried to balance it, and include more stuff (and also rewrite some stuff) that was just obviously straight from the SOA Watch website. Wherever the article seemed to advocate one thing or way, I tried to include the opposing view. I'm not done, yet, so I humbly also ask that everyone leave it alone for a minute while I try to tighten it up more over this Thanksgiving holidy weekend. For example, I left some of the references even after I changed a little thing or two, and so it's possible that a few references need to be updated. All the ones I've added are good, of course, but I'm talking about the ones that were already there and which I now have to go back through and verify. So, anyway, anyone have any objections to my now removing that "review" box notice thingy? Also, any suggestions, as long as I'm workin' on it? Gregg L. DesElms (Username: Deselms) 13:25, 22 November 2012 (UTC)

It has been over two weeks since I wrote the above; and I've since made even more changes (and so has someone else, now) to make it more encyclopedic. And I have even more coming... in fact, I thought I'd have them done by now. I'll get on 'em in the next few days. In the meantime, the article seriously no longer deserves the notice at the top anymore, so with no objection appearing for over two weeks, here, I'm now removing it (by just commenting it out, for the moment; I'll completely remove it later). Gregg L. DesElms (Username: Deselms) 21:55, 10 December 2012 (UTC)

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media[edit]

Roy Bourgeois was responsible for Oscar nominations for best documentary short films "Gods of Metal," about anti-nuclear weapons activists; and "School of Assassins," about the US Army School of the Americas and victims of its graduates. He is also the focus of "Father Roy: Inside the School of Assassins," "Crossing the Line" and "Guns and Greed" -- all produced by Robert Richter, that AMPAS, the Academy of Motion Picture Arts and Sciences, described as among the best documentaries of the years they were released. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Robert Richter, Documentary filmmaker (talk • contribs) 16:42, 25 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

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