Talk:Louis Spohr

Improper emphasis on unimportant details of Spohr's career

It seems to me that this article succumbs to the common problem on wikipedia of lots of things being fleshed out in great detail about Spohr's career as a composer (which frankly has very little to do with why Spohr is an important musical figure, as is apparent from the fact that you almost never hear anything of his performed in the concert hall), when the actual things that Spohr are important for are buried in the article with one or two lines of mention. I think it's impossible to overstate how phenomenally important it was that Spohr invented modern orchestra conducting. Like, seriously, that's one of the most towering things a person can do, and yet it's only mentioned buried in the header and then once again WAY far down. The same thing applies to the whole inventing the chinrest thing. Also, he had a pretty long lasting influence on how violin performance was taught, although that's probably less worth writing about in depth. Which do you guys seriously think is more worth informing a reader who wants to find out about Louis Spohr's influence on music, his mediocre composition career, or the fact that he revolutionized the way orchestras are run and also invented a tool that is now equipped on literally every violin made? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.29.205.180 (talk) 05:44, 13 February 2013 (UTC)

First name

The composer was christened Ludewig but was (and is) known as Louis also in Germany. Publishers of sheet music (to be sold worldwide) always printed titles and composer's first names in French (also Louis van Beethoven etc.); Spohr therefore generally used this name form for easier recognition. In southern and western Germany there was a general fashion of choosing French versions for nicknames, like Schorsch, Schang, Schambes (= Jean-Baptiste). The name Louis/Lui later lost prestige and was/is used as a synonym for pimp. --94.218.179.128 (talk) 11:00, 17 October 2010 (UTC)

Can you please provide a reliable reference for all this 38.73.253.217 (talk) 04:48, 25 March 2023 (UTC)

Greatest concerto?

I would like to know what are considered the greatest of Spohr's Violin Concertos - I love #5 and think that it is most worthwhile and would like to investigate others. Any comments are appreciated.

Violin Concerto No. 8 in A Minor was selected to share the stage with Paganini's No. 1 in D, for an album called "Paganini-Spohr: Violin Concertos", released just this month (Oct. 2006) and sold on iTunes. Those two concertos are the only concertos on the album. The artists are Eije Oue and Hilary Hahn. Hilary Hahn being the virtuoso that she is, No. 8 must have some extra significance.

All twelve of Spohr's violin concertos have been recorded, but No. 8 has multiple recordings going back to Jascha Heifetz. Spohr subtitled it "in moda d'una scena cantata" but the influence of opera arias on the cantabile melodic line in Romantic writing for stringed instruments would lead us to "original research" and be hooted down. It partly accounts for the particular popularity of this concerto, however. --Wetman 23:52, 28 October 2006 (UTC)

Composer project review

I've reviewed this article as part of the Composers project review of its B-class articles. The article is B-class, but is missing some types of content usually in composer biographies; read the details on the comments page. Questions or comments can be left here or on my talk page. Magic♪piano 22:46, 15 December 2008 (UTC)

Useful link: The full list of Spohr's violin concertos --Enok (talk) 21:33, 12 August 2010 (UTC)

Peacock terms

This article has lots of unsubstantiated value judgements about the greatness of Spohr's work. "His orchestral writings and chamber works were once considered on a par with Mozart’s." ... "he ranks as a historic figure in the development of German music drama whose greatest triumph"... Faust is described as his "best" opera. Some more references, coupled with a more detached tone, would help make the article more encylopaedic. See Template:Peacock term 13:16, 1 May 2011 (UTC)

Agreed. I am going to remove those terms now, and sometime this week read the latest edition of the New Grove to get a more balanced view of Spohr's works/citations. 98.67.179.25 (talk) 14:17, 28 June 2011 (UTC) HammerFilmFan

P.S. - I enjoy a great deal of this composer's work, so Spohr-ninja-assassins, please take note this is to ensure a good article per policy and not a negative comment on the man. Like Raff, the public has over the past couple of decades revived his music, and that's a good thing. HammerFilmFan (talk) 21:11, 29 June 2011 (UTC) HammerFilmFan

I've not listened to the composers works, but I have contributed to the article in minor ways. The most recent edits went beyond removal of peacock phrases and consisted of the replacement of overtly positive terms with unsubstantiated value judgements about how awful a composer Spohr was. I've removed these until the people making them can come up with proper substantiation.Graham1973 (talk) 14:06, 30 June 2011 (UTC)

The democrats have cut the town library's budget (they have the New Grove, and other such) so they have new hours - closed at 5 pm - so I'll have to go in the morning tomorrow (it's not worth a drive clear over to the University library.) Americans, vote Obama out for this ... this ... effrontery of my person!  :-)))) 22:51, 30 June 2011 (UTC) HammerFilmFan — Preceding unsigned comment added by HammerFilmFan (talk • contribs)

"... outside Germany"

In today's Germany too, Spohr is primarily known as Louis Spohr. The wrong form Ludwig (instead of Ludewig) occurs only in elder secondary literature from the 19th and early 20th century. But it is generally accepted that Spohr always signed as "Louis" and that his contemporaries used this forename alike. --Hagels (talk) 16:59, 1 May 2011 (UTC)

unnecessary for this article --

These lines are too detailed for what is supposed to be an encyclopedic entry:

"There he met the 18-year-old harpist Dorette Scheidler, daughter of one of the court singers, and fell in love with her. To court her, 
 he composed a Sonata in C minor for violin and harp, thus affording the chance to rehearse with her. He gained permission from 
 Dorette's mother to drive the girl to the premiere performance in a carriage, but could not bring himself to declare his love. 
 After the performance, on the drive home, he felt emboldened, and proposed, saying "Shall we thus play together for life?" 
 She consented with tears."

A simple statement of who he married and when, with the note of how the sonata came into being, will suffice - any objection on removing this? HammerFilmFan (talk) 22:30, 1 July 2011 (UTC) HammerFilmFan

going once ... HammerFilmFan (talk) 17:45, 2 July 2011 (UTC) HammerFilmFan

I've no objections to a change. I'm currently trying to find a good source on his string quartets other than Marco Polo (Naxos) liner notesGraham1973 (talk) 02:24, 3 July 2011 (UTC)

Done - sure wish I had one of the more detailed biographies at hand to properly cite these passages. HammerFilmFan (talk) 14:41, 3 July 2011 (UTC) HammerFilmFan

Can someone fix the Table of Contents on the Talk Page?

It flashes up for a second but then vanishes again. Thanks. HammerFilmFan (talk) 22:41, 1 July 2011 (UTC) HammerFilmFan

Life section is almost totally devoid of citations ...

There is only one footnote among many paragraphs. Looking thru the history, it seems that many Anons have added here and there but Editors MDCollins, Kanx1976, HIS33407district61, FeanorStar7, and Beannaithe are at least (hopefully) still around to add footnotes to this section where they contributed? I don't have access to the biographical books - I've been to the library today and have the latest edition of the New Grove entry on Spohr, and the article in the International Encyclopedia of Music and Musicians 11th edition - but can't correlate every line from these, nor would I want to edit what is most probably verifiable information from the references noted if they could simply be properly attributed. Any hope on you guys coming back and "finishing the job"? I'll note this on the user pages of the above. HammerFilmFan (talk) 23:05, 1 July 2011 (UTC) HammerFilmFan

Teacher?

The current version of this article says Spohr was taught by Franz Ignaz Beck (and links to his article). I'm in the middle of researching a violin known as the "Eck", owned by Franz Eck (1744/1774? - 1804) who is known as Spohr's teacher. He doesn't have a Wikipedia article but there's a note on him here (http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=I0oJ70ZPs4gC&pg=PA407&lpg=PA407&dq=franz+eck+1717+stradivari&source=bl&ots=-I3V09651o&sig=PEZJrDNkb9XsgJ4Bxubkp7Tim8k&hl=en&ei=SlalTomhD5KU8gPD9pzrBQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=9&ved=0CFkQ6AEwCA#v=onepage&q&f=false). Also, n.b. Beck's article doesn't mention teaching Spohr.

Does anyone have any expert knowledge that might shed some light on this possible misunderstanding? iPhil (talk) 12:25, 24 October 2011 (UTC)

Well, I don't have expert knowledge, but I know a man who does. Clive Brown's article on Spohr in the New Grove Dictionary of Opera, vol 4, p.479, says "After a period of study with the Mannheim violinist Franz Eck, Spohr rapidly gained recognition as an outstanding violinist." My 1970s "Everyman's dictionary of music" gives Eck's dates as 1774 (Mannheim) to 1804 (Stuttgart) and says that he was a pupil of his brother Johann Friedrich Eck (1766-c. 1809). [Franz] "played in the court band at Munich as a youth, then travelled much and took Spohr to Russia with him as his pupil." It looks to me as if the 1774 birth date date is correct, otherwise he'd have been 22 when his brother was born and died at 60 when his brother was 38. I suggest that you replace F I Beck with Franz Eck in the Spohr article. Hope this helps. --GuillaumeTell 15:39, 24 October 2011 (UTC)

Adding a link to Brown's biography of Spohr which looks like a clincher. --GuillaumeTell 15:53, 24 October 2011 (UTC)

Pronunciation of surname?

It might be helpful to provide guidance on the pronunciation of Spohr. (I've always pronounced it "Schpor" but I'm not certain if that is how it was pronounced by Spohr.) Tetsuo (talk) 05:01, 23 December 2014 (UTC)

Assessment comment

The comment(s) below were originally left at Talk:Louis Spohr/Comments, and are posted here for posterity. Following several discussions in past years, these subpages are now deprecated. The comments may be irrelevant or outdated; if so, please feel free to remove this section.

Comment(s)

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Composers Project Assessment of Louis Spohr: 2008-12-15 This is an assessment of article Louis Spohr by a member of the Composers project, according to its assessment criteria. This review was done by Magicpiano. If an article is well-cited, the reviewer is assuming that the article reflects reasonably current scholarship, and deficiencies in the historical record that are documented in a particular area will be appropriately scored. If insufficient inline citations are present, the reviewer will assume that deficiencies in that area may be cured, and that area may be scored down. Adherence to overall Wikipedia standards (WP:MOS, WP:WIAGA, WP:WIAFA) are the reviewer's opinion, and are not a substitute for the Wikipedia's processes for awarding Good Article or Featured Article status. Origins/family background/studies Does the article reflect what is known about the composer's background and childhood? If s/he received musical training as a child, who from, is the experience and nature of the early teachers' influences described? good Early career Does the article indicate when s/he started composing, discuss early style, success/failure? Are other pedagogic and personal influences from this time on his/her music discussed? good, but little compositional detail Mature career Does the article discuss his/her adult life and composition history? Are other pedagogic and personal influences from this time on his/her music discussed? good, but little compositional detail List(s) of works Are lists of the composer's works in WP, linked from this article? If there are special catalogs (e.g. Köchel for Mozart, Hoboken for Haydn), are they used? If the composer has written more than 20-30 works, any exhaustive listing should be placed in a separate article. No complete works list. Described length would require a separate article. Critical appreciation Does the article discuss his/her style, reception by critics and the public (both during his/her life, and over time)? Unclear why his relative obscurity happened. More popular and critical reception would be good. Illustrations and sound clips Does the article contain images of its subject, birthplace, gravesite or other memorials, important residences, manuscript pages, museums, etc? Does it contain samples of the composer's work (as composer and/or performer, if appropriate)? (Note that since many 20th-century works are copyrighted, it may not be possible to acquire more than brief fair use samples of those works, but efforts should be made to do so.) If an article is of high enough quality, do its images and media comply with image use policy and non-free content policy? (Adherence to these is needed for Good Article or Featured Article consideration, and is apparently a common reason for nominations being quick-failed.) Good. References, sources and bibliography Does the article contain a suitable number of references? Does it contain sufficient inline citations? (For an article to pass Good Article nomination, every paragraph possibly excepting those in the lead, and every direct quotation, should have at least one footnote.) If appropriate, does it include Further Reading or Bibliography beyond the cited references? Article has references; few inline citations. Structure and compliance with WP MOS Does the article comply with Wikipedia style and layout guidelines, especially WP:MOS, WP:LEAD, WP:LAYOUT, and possibly WP:SIZE? (Article length is not generally significant, although Featured Articles Candidates may be questioned for excessive length.) ok, but the lead is short Things that may be necessary to pass a Good Article review Article requires more inline citations (WP:CITE) Article lead needs work (WP:LEAD) Summary This is actually a fairly nice biography. It's a bit odd that only a few compositions are mentioned in the Life section, and one of them is by Beethoven. More of what he composed and performed, and how those performances and compositions were received when premiered would greatly increase the depth of knowledge. Also of benefit would be some indication (if possible) about why he has garnered less attention than some of his peers over time. The article is missing a complete works list; this is a significant defect for a presumably well-documented composer. The article has few inline citations; this is not overly important, but anyone adding content should take note to supply them. The lead is short by current standards. Article is B-class, needs work. Magic♪piano 22:43, 15 December 2008 (UTC) Article is B-class; it needs bulk.

Last edited at 22:43, 15 December 2008 (UTC). Substituted at 22:30, 29 April 2016 (UTC)

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