Talk:Miss Cleo

This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Miss Cleo article.
This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject.

Put new text under old text. Click here to start a new topic.
New to Wikipedia? Welcome! Learn to edit; get help.

Article policies

Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL

Archives: 1, 2: 180 days

A news item involving Miss Cleo was featured on Wikipedia's Main Page in the In the news section on 27 July 2016.

Wikipedia

Biography: Arts and Entertainment

	Biography portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Biography, a collaborative effort to create, develop and organize Wikipedia's articles about people. All interested editors are invited to join the project and contribute to the discussion. For instructions on how to use this banner, please refer to the documentation.BiographyWikipedia:WikiProject BiographyTemplate:WikiProject Biographybiography articles
	This article is supported by the arts and entertainment work group (assessed as Low-importance).
	An editor has requested that an image or photograph be added to this article.

California: Los Angeles Low‑importance

	California portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject California, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of the U.S. state of California on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.CaliforniaWikipedia:WikiProject CaliforniaTemplate:WikiProject CaliforniaCalifornia articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.
	Greater Los Angeles portal This article is supported by Los Angeles area task force (assessed as Low-importance).

LGBT studies: Person

	LGBT portal This article is of interest to WikiProject LGBT studies, which tries to ensure comprehensive and factual coverage of all LGBT-related issues on Wikipedia. For more information, or to get involved, please visit the project page or contribute to the discussion.LGBT studiesWikipedia:WikiProject LGBT studiesTemplate:WikiProject LGBT studiesLGBT articles
	This article is supported by the LGBT Person task force.

Marketing & Advertising Low‑importance

	This article is within the scope of WikiProject Marketing & Advertising, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Marketing on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Marketing & AdvertisingWikipedia:WikiProject Marketing & AdvertisingTemplate:WikiProject Marketing & AdvertisingMarketing & Advertising articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the importance scale.

Paranormal Low‑importance

	This article falls under the scope of WikiProject Paranormal, which aims to build a comprehensive and detailed guide to the paranormal and related topics on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, you can edit the attached article, help with current tasks, or visit the project page, where you can join the project and discussions.ParanormalWikipedia:WikiProject ParanormalTemplate:WikiProject Paranormalparanormal articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

Skepticism Low‑importance

	This article is within the scope of WikiProject Skepticism, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of science, pseudoscience, pseudohistory and skepticism related articles on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.SkepticismWikipedia:WikiProject SkepticismTemplate:WikiProject SkepticismSkepticism articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

United States: Television Low‑importance

	United States portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject United States, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of topics relating to the United States of America on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the ongoing discussions. Template Usage Articles Requested! Become a Member Project Talk Alerts United StatesWikipedia:WikiProject United StatesTemplate:WikiProject United StatesUnited States articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.
	Television portal This article is supported by American television task force (assessed as Low-importance).

Women

This article is within the scope of WikiProject Women, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of women on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.WomenWikipedia:WikiProject WomenTemplate:WikiProject WomenWikiProject Women articles

Source for the character "Miss Cleo"[edit]

At present the article has "The Psychic Readers Network is said to have coined the title 'Miss Cleo'" and cites "Phone psychics' scam follows script". Erie Times-News. December 1, 2001. p. 2. I checked the web sites goerie.com and timespublishingcompany.com for "Phone psychics' scam follows script" or "Miss Cleo" but neither of them has this article on line.

The puzzle is this seattlepi.com article which says "Back then, she was known as Ree Perris and had written a play called 'For Women Only.' In it, Perris played a Jamaican woman named Cleo." If that's accurate then Youree Harris created the character and the Psychic Readers Network adopted it.

For now, I decided to not update the article as I'd want to see better sourcing for who developed the character. At one time the Psychic Readers Network seems to have owned the rights to it.

FWIW, the same seattlepi.com article says she was also known as Ree Perris, Youree Cleomili, Youree Dell Harris, Youree Perris, Rae Dell Harris, Cleomili Perris Youree, Cleomili Harris, and finally, well known as Miss Cleo. --Marc Kupper|talk 20:13, 5 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move 4 December 2022[edit]

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

No consensus to move. After much-extended time for discussion, there is no consensus for a move at this time, and no reason to believe that a consensus will form if discussion is extended further. BD2412 T 23:53, 31 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Miss Cleo → Youree Dell Harris – Proposing rename because the article is about actress/media personality Youree Dell Harris, and "Miss Cleo" is essentially a character she frequently played. I don't think it would fall under WP:COMMONNAME and WP:PSEUDONYM because Miss Cleo wasn't a stage name she could freely use, it was a character created and owned by Psychic Readers Network who Harris was hired to play, and her other credits like voice over have been under her real name. In recent high quality entertainment sources like EW, it refers to the portrayer as Youree Dell Harris and Miss Cleo as a character. For another precedent for a performer primarily known for one character, Cassandra Peterson's article is not named Elvira. --Shivertimbers433 (talk) 23:06, 4 December 2022 (UTC) — Relisting. – robertsky (talk) 16:40, 15 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Support per nom.--Ortizesp (talk) 14:43, 5 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose. Miss Cleo is what's notable; Youree Harris is only notable because of Miss Cleo. If we want to make a separate article for Youree Harris the person, that's fine, but I suspect it may fail WP:N. I'd rewrite the article from this point of view, something like "Miss Cleo was a spokeswoman for psychic pay-per-call service Psychic Readers Network, portrayed by Youree Dell Harris in a series of television commercials that aired from 1997 to 2003." 162 etc. (talk) 17:53, 5 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Support per Cassandra Peterson, Larry Vincent. Those are actors who portrayed a character, but their articles are biographies of the actor, like this is a biography of Harris. For a character, we can see how articles like Flo (Progressive) have no biographical detail of the actor. I don't think there's enough content to justify separate pages for Harris and Miss Cleo, but I could be mistaken. – Muboshgu (talk) 20:45, 6 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Support per Muboshgu. Shwcz (talk) 15:54, 7 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Support per nom, Muboshgu, and my 2015 comments at Talk:Miss_Cleo/Archive_2#RFC:_How_to_describe_Miss_Cleo_in_her_article. ~ ONUnicorn^{(Talk|Contribs)}problem solving 17:39, 7 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose. We should keep this at Miss Cleo because it is the well established WP:COMMONNAME - Google search indicates 19,600,000 results for "Miss Cleo" compared to 39,900 results for "Youree Dell Harris" (most of which say stuff like Miss Cleo ... real name was Youree Dell Harris, Miss Cleo ... Born Youree Dell Harris, etc). And per WP:STAGENAME: "The name used most often to refer to a person in reliable sources is generally the one that should be used as the article title, even if it is not the person's "real" name". There is nobody else who played Miss Cleo, and Harris is widely known by that name - her obituaries are essentially for Miss Cleo. Harris is notable for being Miss Cleo, and that is what most readers will be looking for, as is made clear by PageView Analysis: [1] - Youree Dell Harris was created in July 2006, and has attracted 534 views since then; Miss Cleo, which was created only two years earlier than Youree Dell Harris, has attracted 1,608,633 page views. Miss Cleo attracts an average of 591 views a day, which is more than Youree Dell Harris has attracted in 16 years. Per policy, guideline, usage, principle of least astonishment, and plain common sense, this article should remain at Miss Cleo. SilkTork (talk) 18:28, 11 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Support per others above and consistency with articles such as Flo (character). This is about the actress, not the character. We have it at Phil McGraw not Dr. Phil, we have Mehmet Oz not Dr. Oz, etc. cookie monster 755 02:16, 16 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Support per nom. VideōEtCorrigō (talk) 02:31, 16 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose - the persona is the notable topic here. -- Netoholic @ 07:09, 16 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose per above. And call me now! Rreagan007 (talk) 20:45, 16 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose per above as well. We know Miss Cleo. We were never introduced to Youree, and most people don't even know that is her birth name. GuinanTheListener (talk) 16:40, 21 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose. Youree Dell Harris is only notable because of "Miss Cleo", the "persona" in Psychic Readers Network infomercials .... 0mtwb9gd5wx (talk) 02:03, 27 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
pageviews: Youree_Dell_Harris; Miss_Cleo; Psychic_Readers_Network; .... 0mtwb9gd5wx (talk) 11:28, 26 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.