Talk:Sugar Ray Robinson

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Good articleSugar Ray Robinson has been listed as one of the Sports and recreation good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can reassess it.
On this day... Article milestones
DateProcessResult
June 7, 2007Good article nomineeListed
January 11, 2009Good article reassessmentKept
December 11, 2010Peer reviewReviewed
On this day... Facts from this article were featured on Wikipedia's Main Page in the "On this day..." column on May 3, 2018, and May 3, 2021.
Current status: Good article

Clean[edit]

There's some vandalism in his Early Career section

Somebody needs to clean this article and get it bigger. --User:Transkar

fixed up a bit. 69.116.150.174 21:33, 20 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Boxing record[edit]

boxrec lists robinson as 173-19-6/2 in 200 matches, where did you get the two extra wins from? 69.116.150.174 22:39, 1 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

It's not two extra wins, it's two no contests. Tom 05/24/08 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.222.116.59 (talk) 20:19, 24 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Additions[edit]

I've made some additions to the article. If anyone needs references I'm willing to offer them.-8/13/06

Robinson-LaMotta[edit]

Someone took it upon themselves to add this to the article "Although Robinson won the bouts they were later put in the books as exhibition fights and were not counted in Robinson's professional record." This is totally incorrect and I removed it immediately. All six Robinson-LaMotta fights were official, professional prize fights, not exhibitions. You can check boxrec.com which is in the external links, or you can check any website that has Sugar Ray Robinson's professional boxing record on it. Robinson and LaMotta fought six official fights, not exhibitions.-9/3/06

I've noticed the 5th LaMotta Robinson fight on September 26, 1945 is present on LaMotta's record but not Robinson's. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.25.57.248 (talk) 18:48, 7 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Major work done[edit]

Okay I did a huge amount of work on the article here's a diff covering several hundred edits:[1] Here's a quick comparison: Before and After. Not bad for one day. Quadzilla99 02:18, 7 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

GA nom[edit]

Okay. Let's see if this work I did payed off. I nommed it for GA. Quadzilla99 19:49, 7 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

GA passing[edit]

The prose still needs a little work but it's pretty good overall. The article is well sourced, covers everything, and is well laid out. I did a little copyediting, needs some more, also expand some of the last few sections if you're going for FA. Particularly the Boxing style section. None of these are problems as far as GA is concerned though it meets GA criteria easily. Trevor GH5 21:33, 7 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

1955 Fighter of the Year[edit]

Carmen Basilio did not win the award for Fighter of the Year in 1955, Rocky Marciano did. Basilio and Tony DeMarco, rather, won the award for Fight of the Year that year for their rematch.9-27-07 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 63.3.22.129 (talk) 05:46, 27 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Ronnie Robinson[edit]

Numerous sources, including Time magazine, refer to 1960s Roller Derby skater Ronnie Robinson as Sugar Ray's son. This Wikipedia article only mentions one child he fathered as a teenager, and another son named Ray. What's the story with Ronnie? I assume he was the older child? —mjb (talk) 04:52, 1 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I've added his first marriage and their son (born Ronnie Smith) in the Personal life section. Best name (talk) 23:23, 3 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

ronnies older from a different wife then edna may hes my uncle —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.161.123.47 (talk) 04:42, 26 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

GA Reassessment[edit]

This discussion is transcluded from Talk:Sugar Ray Robinson/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the reassessment.

This article has been reviewed as part of Wikipedia:WikiProject Good articles/Project quality task force. I believe the article currently meets the criteria and should remain listed as a Good article. The article history has been updated to reflect this review. Regards,--Jackyd101 (talk) 13:10, 11 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

  • It is reasonably well written.
    a (prose): b (MoS):
The prose is OK, a 6/10.
  • It is factually accurate and verifiable.
    a (references): b (citations to reliable sources): c (OR):
  • It is broad in its coverage.
    a (major aspects): b (focused):
  • It follows the neutral point of view policy.
    a (fair representation): b (all significant views):
  • It is stable.
  • It contains images, where possible, to illustrate the topic.
    a (tagged and captioned): b (lack of images does not in itself exclude GA): c (non-free images have fair use rationales):
Obviously, an image would be nice.
  • Overall:
    a Pass/Fail:

Vishka Vasquez[edit]

I removed this quote attributed to him. It had a reference, so many probably ignored it. However, the reference was 54, which has multiple references AND referees, some of which are dead. A google search for Vishka Vasquez yields only this page and one other mirroring it, so if it was vandalism and that's someone's name, then that person should really find a better way of getting their name on the internet. JesseRafe (talk) 04:15, 14 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

boxing record??[edit]

why is there no record for him? it should be an essential part of this page —Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.241.25.187 (talk) 14:31, 22 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

It's in the infobox, under "Boxing record". You are correct, there's no separate section in the article itself. --CliffC (talk) 14:57, 22 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Citation templates[edit]

I'd like to know what's the general opinion on using citation templates on this article, specificly in this manner. It has several advantages, the most important one being that it produces a hidden, machine-readable code (so-called "Z3988" ContextObject). Should it be implemented on this article? --bender235 (talk) 17:22, 28 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

No, the citations system already in use should be preserved, per WP:CITE. — Carl (CBM · talk) 17:56, 28 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
The current system should stay per WP:CITE as CBM said. Trevor GH5 (talk) 22:51, 29 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Just to make sure people understand what WP:CITE says. It does not say "keep the existing style by any means". It says "seek consensus before you change the existing style". So "keep per WP:CITE" is just ill-advised. --bender235 (talk) 01:48, 30 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
It says, "You should follow the style already established in an article if it has one; where there is disagreement, the style used by the first editor to use one should be respected." — Carl (CBM · talk) 02:15, 30 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
The lead pretty clearly says: "If an article already has citations, adopt the method in use or seek consensus on the talk page before changing it." WP:CITE was never meant to prevent the introduction of new features, the way you interpret it. Why? Fact is, on Wikipedia, nothing is in stone. Not once. Ever. --bender235 (talk) 02:44, 30 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
I'd be against the change for two reasons. 1) both methods are acceptable and I see no reason to change the old one. Templates do make it hard to see things in the editing box, and they increase the articles size and 2) also the idea that the main person who has edited the article (I passed the GA so I'm a little familiar with the article's history) uses a perfectly fine manual citation method and someone who (afaik) has no interest in adding content to the article wants to change the format bothers me tbh. Trevor GH5 (talk) 04:07, 30 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
That is a reasonable rational. I'm fine with that. However, I find it disturbing that people only consider "adding content" a valid reason to modify an article. That's not how Wikipedia was meant to work. Because there are also a lot of people doing those minor edits of "typo corrections, formatting and presentational changes, rearranging of text without modifying content, etc." That is not illegitimate. Please keep that in mind. --bender235 (talk) 11:47, 30 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Early Career section[edit]

The first few paragraphs of the section are written in an unencyclopedic style, which is odd for a GA. Perhaps quotes have been mixed with regular text ? zubrowka74 17:30, 7 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Unexplained abbreviations[edit]

An article should be understandable by more than insiders. while it might be fair to assume that "everyone" knows what TKO means, this is not true for UD and some of the other unexplained abbreviations. Some-body, please, explicate. Kdammers (talk) 07:05, 9 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Horribly written[edit]

that is all. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.136.106.169 (talk) 05:25, 2 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Dream[edit]

Original source says "some people said" he dreamed he would kill his opponent. Not only is that hearsay, it's completely different from (a) Robinson actually saying he dreamed it and thus (b) withdrawing from the fight. I'm going to remove mention of the dream. Telanis (talk) 20:02, 4 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I put it in as a footnote. That seems to be due weight. 7&6=thirteen (☎) 22:58, 4 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]

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Stuck in medical field but passionate to become a great boxer. Dfrozenfire (talk) 13:01, 25 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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Assessment comment[edit]

The comment(s) below were originally left at Talk:Sugar Ray Robinson/Comments, and are posted here for posterity. Following several discussions in past years, these subpages are now deprecated. The comments may be irrelevant or outdated; if so, please feel free to remove this section.

Possible source for expansion:[2] Need a secondary source for his childhood info as opposed to his autobiograpohies. Quadzilla99 11:01, 6 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Idolized Joe Louis. Pg. 39 Quadzilla99 12:17, 6 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Source for business interests:[3], also Mister Grey chapter in Robinson and Anderson. Quadzilla99 15:46, 6 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Right now I'm using a lot of primary sources just to construct it I will replace and/or verify these later. Quadzilla99 18:20, 6 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Another entourage ref in case anyone questions it:[4] Quadzilla99 00:45, 7 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Last edited at 00:45, 7 June 2007 (UTC). Substituted at 07:15, 30 April 2016 (UTC)

Born where?[edit]

The info box says that he was born in Detroit but the text says Ailey, Georgia. Which is right? Bubba73 You talkin' to me? 04:23, 3 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

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Divorced or Annulled?[edit]

I feel there's a slight contradiction, or at least very misleading info on his first wife. Under "Early Life," the last paragraph says, "He married at 16. The couple had one son, Ronnie, and divorced when Robinson was 19."

Then under "Personal Life," the first sentence reads, "Robinson married Marjorie Joseph in 1938; the marriage was annulled the same year."

The first statement is supported by a cite, so I'm inclined to trust it more, but even if both are true in some way, I feel this might leave others confused as well. Cornelius (talk) 03:21, 7 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Not necessarily inconsistent. Without researching it, it is possible that he got a civil divorce and a religious annulment. Needs research and possibly a clarifying note. 7&6=thirteen (☎) 03:29, 7 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Unbeaten streak[edit]

Hi, are there some fights missing? The unbeaten streak of 91 fights cannot be correct if the fights listed are accurate. from fight 41 to fight 128 is 88 fights if my maths are correct, not 91. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Tommy3121 (talk • contribs) 08:47, 6 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

World War II service[edit]

Although Robinson served in the United States Army during the World War II era, no reliable sources found as of yet state that he served overseas in a war zone during the war. More specifically, the sources do not establish defining role in World War II. Accordingly, Category:American military personnel of World War II was removed from the article. Semper Fi! FieldMarine (talk) 11:07, 22 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Sugar Ray[edit]

This article states that Sugar Ray Leonard took his nickname in homage to Sugar Ray Robinson, but the Wikipedia article for Sugar Ray Leonard states that Leonard was given the sobriquet by an assistant coach for being "sweet as sugar." I suppose it could be a little of both, but I feel there should at least be a line of text reconciling the apparent contradiction in one or, preferably, both articles.

Leonard's article specifically states that had Leonard not been given the monicker by his coach, Leonard would likely eventually have received the monicker after Sugar Ray Robinson anyway due to Leonard's fighting skill and first name, implying the name indeed was not initially given with regard to Robinson.

On a side note, it is odd to find such hypothetical speculation in an encyclopedia article, but I actually prefer it when common or likely questions are specifically addressed directly in the text. 66.91.36.8 (talk) 18:56, 15 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

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