Talk:The Hanged Man (tarot card)

	Games portal This article is part of WikiProject Board and table games, an attempt to better organize information in articles related to board games and tabletop games. If you would like to participate, you can edit the article attached to this page, or visit the project page, where you can join the project and/or contribute to the discussion.Board and table gamesWikipedia:WikiProject Board and table gamesTemplate:WikiProject Board and table gamesboard and table game articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

Occult Mid‑importance

	This article is within the scope of WikiProject Occult, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of articles related to the occult on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.OccultWikipedia:WikiProject OccultTemplate:WikiProject OccultOccult articles
Mid	This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.

Guild of Copy Editors

This article was copy edited by Volpeculus sagacis, a member of the Guild of Copy Editors.Guild of Copy EditorsWikipedia:WikiProject Guild of Copy EditorsTemplate:WikiProject Guild of Copy EditorsGuild of Copy Editors articles

On 11 August 2022, it was proposed that this article be moved to The Hanged Man (tarot card). The result of the discussion was moved to "tarot" ( 'small t' ).

US Games Copyright Permissions Clarified[edit]

I have contacted US Games to clarify copyright and permissions. To be specific, I believe that wikipedia's use (with requisite attribution) is in line with item 3 under Usage and Pricing in their TarotReproductionPolicies.pdf document (http://www.usgamesinc.com/newstore/layout/pages/US/info/TarotReproductionPolicies.pdf). If I receive confirmation, I will update these pages to reflect that.

Content of my request: <snip> I am working on articles regarding the Tarot for the Wikipedia and saw that images from your deck (to be specific, I believe it was the Arthur Waite version) were used in these pages. I propogated thi error in creating a new page, which was later modified to be indicative of the potential copyright problems with these pages. I am writing to confirm that the usage of your images on these pages (they are the card-specific pages that are linked to from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tarot) would be allowable to use with no fees incurred per item 3 under Usage and Pricing in your TarotReproductionPolicies.pdf document (http://www.usgamesinc.com/newstore/layout/pages/US/info/TarotReproductionPolicies.pdf), provided proper attribution is given.

If this is correct, please notify me by email so that I can encapsulate your response. I will then construct a page with proper arttribution, so that you may review it if you so desire, before adding the images back to any other pages.

Thanks in advance for your time. Cori Schlegel http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Kinrowan </snip> kinrowan 18:58, 2005 Mar 2 (UTC)

Examples[edit]

I removed the "Examples" section since it was entirely Original Research which Wikipedia does not allow. I left the "mythopoeteic interpretation" section because that may have come from a reputable source but it seems to be something based on personal interpretation like the "Examples" section. - DNewhall

The Original Name[edit]

I think it would be great to include some of history of this card in the article (as mentioned in the comment by Philebus). I was on the verge of adding some myself, but the only sources I have access to at the present are various internet sites with questionable attribution.... Skandha101 05:18, 27 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Michael Dummett's books on the Tarot's history make clear that the name "The Hanged Man" is not the original one. Early Tarot cards from Italy did not have the names on the cards, people were expected to know them. The practice of putting the name on the cards began with the French card makers. Early Italian texts however, do name the card as "The Traitor" - it was the practice in Italy to hang traitors upside-down in this fashion. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Philebus (talk • contribs) 10:54, August 25, 2007 (UTC)

Mythopoetic approach[edit]

I removed the following from the article and bring it here for discussion:

He is closely associated through his cross sum (the sum of the digits) with The Empress, which in many mythologies is his mother or wife. He is the Dying God who dies each year, whose rebirth renews the world. Ideally, he is a willing sacrifice, though life sometimes demands sacrifices of the unwilling.

He is also associated with The Knights of the Minor Arcana; all these heroes are willing to die for their mission.

His cross sum makes him a solar hero. There are 12 months in a solar year (as opposed to 13 months in the lunar year). In some way he represents the solar cults who rode down and vanquished the old goddess cults (metaphorically or otherwise), though some accommodations were reached.

When Key 21 (The World) is placed above The Hanged Man, it makes an ankh, the Egyptian symbol of life, another association with The Empress. He represents the deal life made with death; that in return for reproduction, we are mortal. This is illustrated by the death of Osiris; even though Isis brings him back again and again, in the end, she has to be satisfied with leaving him in the underworld and using her arts to conceive a child with him. Their child, Horus, is a sun god, and in some sense, Osiris reborn.

The Hanged Man is every hero committed enough to the adventure to die for it.

The Hanged Man's association with the Empress can be ennobling or pathological. If the Empress is the object of desire, the Hanged Man is the one who desires. That desire can be destructively consuming or defining. If the Hanged Man appears with the Empress, it can signal consuming longing.

When he appears in a throw, he often signals a past sacrifice (of the Querent or otherwise) whose energy is either still enriching the Querent's life or being misspent. He can also represent a sacrifice the Querent is being set up to make. That can be a good thing (initiating the Querent into the mysteries, saving the world) or not so much (duping the Querent into an unwise sacrifice). He may also signal something about the person's relationship with their partner or parent.

There is so much interpretation and opinion here, and yet not a single reference to back any of it up. This has to remain out until sources are found for these statements. ---RepublicanJacobite_{The'FortyFive'} 16:54, 18 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

In literature and popular culture[edit]

Also Moonspell's song "The hanged man" BartoszKP (talk) 10:52, 18 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Is this card also called "The Traitor" ?[edit]

Is this card also called "The Traitor" ? Karl-police (talk) 12:58, 4 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@Hgzh: Do you know a place where questions like these are better to be asked at, so that they will get seen? Karl-police (talk) 13:02, 4 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Wikipedia's reference desk will give your question the most views from interested editors, Karl-police.--Quisqualis (talk) 20:44, 4 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Ah ok. I was wondering, because to translate csgo on sts Karl-police (talk) 20:57, 4 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

"Hanging Man" listed at Redirects for discussion[edit]

An editor has identified a potential problem with the redirect Hanging Man and has thus listed it for discussion. This discussion will occur at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2022 August 9#Hanging Man until a consensus is reached, and readers of this page are welcome to contribute to the discussion. CycloneYoris ^talk! 08:53, 9 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Move discussion in progress[edit]

There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:The Fool (Tarot card) which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. —RMCD bot 13:32, 11 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]