Talk:Josip Juraj Strossmayer

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Matica[edit]

He also helped found the Matica srpska and Matica slovenska, the national culture societies of the Serbs and the Slovenes, respectively.

I went back and checked this information and can't find *anything* useful by Googling. You'd think that there'd at least be a hint of corroboration... --Joy [shallot] 11:14, 19 Jan 2005 (UTC)

I found some hints today about the Novi Sad Matica srpska, but nothing really properly referencable. Now looking for Slovenska matica... --Joy [shallot] (talk) 21:47, 18 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]
http://www.archive.org/details/spomencvieceizhr00matiuoft has a document with a section in Slovenian about this, starting at page 151. It starts with:
Ko so slovenski rodoljubi pod vodstvom dra. L. Tomana leta 1863. snovali "Slovensko Matico", so na svoje početje opozorili poleg slovenskih veljakov tudi slovanske zlasti jugoslovanske, med njimi v prvi vrsti dičnega Strossmayerja. Prav radostno je pozdravil on njihovo rodoljubno misel in med prvimi je priskočil mladi "Matici", še predno je stopila javno na pozorišče, z zares bogatim darom. Postal je njen utemeljitelj, postal je njen velik dobrotnik.
Odtlej nahajamo med njima ves čas prav tesno svezo. Skoro da ni minulo nobeno leto, v katerem bi se ne bila ta zveza manj ali bolj vidno pokazala. Vedno je bila pa znak globokega spoštovanja in odkritosrčne hvaležnosti na eni, prisrčnega prijateljstva in blagohotnega zanimanja na drugi strani. Spominski dnovi biskupovi: 4. februarij, 19. marcij in 8. september so bili tudi za naše društvo vedno praznični dnovi.
Predaleč bi segalo, da bi se podrobno dotikal vseh prilik, ob katerih se je omenjena zveza pojavljala. To ni moj namen in zgrešil bi tudi stavljeni cilj.
Pač se mi pa zdi sedaj, ko slavi jugoslovanstvo svojega največjega sina, opozoriti na one trenutke, v katerih se njegove vrline prav vidno razodevajo tudi napram naši "Matici".
Someone who can read Slovenian better than Google Translate should explain what that really means :) but it looks to me like a clear corroboration of the original article claim. --Joy [shallot] (talk) 22:08, 18 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Oh and it's signed by "Evgen Lah", which looks like sl:Evgen Lah. --Joy [shallot] (talk) 22:12, 18 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

POV[edit]

Some alternative viewpoints could be useful for the redaction of this article, it looks more like a hagiography right now... --Joy [shallot] 15:59, 17 Feb 2005 (UTC)

"National Party" description[edit]

I've undone this anonymous edit that included:

Strossmayer's National Party was in favour of the unity of the Croatian and Serbian people only on condition that the Serbs eventually merge with the Croats. To achieve this more easily and quickly, Pozor raised its voice against the setting up of any separate Serbian institutions and societies in Croatia. Characteristic in this respect is the setting up of the society of the United Serbian Youth in Zagreb, under the name of Zvezda. When the society was constituted early in 1867, the National Party took offence. Pozor complained: "For such a society to be set up in Budapest, Vienna, Munich or anywhere in foreign parts is quite natural; young people in a foreign world like to get together and remember their homeland. For the Serbs, even if they were born in Serbia - not to speak of Orthodox Croats - to feel in Zagreb as if they were abroad, this is something we did not know or expect."
Strossmayer's National Party believed that in the Triune Kingdom there is only one, namely, Croatian political people. In accordance with that, they treated the Serbs in the Triune Kingdom as a part of the Croat political people and not as a separate diplomatic, what is today known as constitutive people. For this reason they opposed Subotic's proposal, not wanting to share state sovereignty with the Serbs and, even indirectly, by introducing the Serbian name in the Sabor's address, recognise that the Serbs have their political individuality. The most determined stand was taken by Dragojlo baron Kuslan: "This state of ours, which is known to our ruler and to the rest of the diplomatic world exclusively as Croatian, nor can it be called any other way, we cannot share with anybody in the world for the sake of any accord. Therefore, our Serbian brothers should not ask us for it, because thereby they will ask our death." Because of the hard line adopted by the majority of the Croat deputies, particularly those from the ranks of the National Party which was led by Strossmayer and Racki, Subotic's motion was voted down and the expression "our people", proposed in the draft of the address, remained in its final version.

This may all be valid, but there is no explanation of who or what is Pozor, and who is Subotic and what is his/her proposal. It looks like copy&paste so it's a potential copyright violation. --Joy [shallot] (talk) 19:02, 18 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

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External links modified[edit]

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Strossmayer's stance on Austria/Habsburgs and Serbia/Yugoslavism[edit]

This article currently espouses the view that Strossmayer was loyal to the Habsburgs, quotes: He was, like ban Jelačić, a supporter of the Austrian Habsburg Monarchy, and Strossmayer supported the union of all south Slavic peoples under the aegis of the Habsburgs. But the Yugoslavism article presents a different story (with refs), quotes: Yugoslavist leader Strossmayer advocating this as being achievable within a federalized Yugoslav monarchy, and Strossmayer and Serbian foreign minister Ilija Garašanin agreed to work together to create "a Yugoslav state free from Austria or Turkey.".

I do not have time right now to check the references, but obviously work is needed for this article and for the Yugoslavism one. Notrium (talk) 18:36, 10 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Some refs: [1] [2]

Bishop Strossmayer was an ardent advocate of the liberation of the South Slavs from Austrian, Magyar, and Turkish rule, a vocal partisan of South Slav unity [...] [3]

Off-topic to loyalty to Habsburgs, but also very interesting about Strossmayer (regarding his anti-papal infallibility stance): [4]

Also interesting are the letters to Gladstone: [5] [6] [7] [8]

References[edit]

  1. ^ Kadić, Ante (1961). "Vladimir Soloviev and Bishop Strossmayer". American Slavic and East European Review. pp. 163–188. doi:10.2307/3000906.
  2. ^ Bukowski, James (1974). "Josip J. Strossmayer-Franjo Rački: Politički Spisi : Rasprave, Članci, Govori Memorandumi. Edited by Vladimir Košćak. Zagreb: Znanje, 1971. 562 pp". Slavic Review. pp. 815–816. doi:10.2307/2494560.
  3. ^ Baylen, Joseph O. (1967). "Bishop Strossmayer and Mme. Olga Novikov: Two Unpublished Letters, 1879". Slavic Review. pp. 468–473. doi:10.2307/2492729.
  4. ^ Kent, John (1967). "Religious Thought in the Nineteenth Century illustrated from Writers of the Period. By Bernard M. G. Reardon. Pp. x + 406. Cambridge: Cambridge University Press, 1966. 55s. (bound), 25s. (paper). - Religious Controversies of the Nineteenth Century: selected documents. By A. O. J. Cockshut. Pp. vi + 266. London: Methuen, 1966. 35s". The Journal of Ecclesiastical History. pp. 125–126. doi:10.1017/S0022046900070640.
  5. ^ Strossmayer, Bishop Josip Juraj (1911). "Letter of Bishop Josip Juraj Strossmayer to Mr. William E. Gladstone, October 1, 1876".
  6. ^ Strossmayer, Bishop Josip Juraj (1911). "Bishop Josip Juraj Strossmayer to Mr. William E. Gladstone, February 10, 1877".
  7. ^ Strossmayer, Bishop Josip Juraj (1911). "Letter of Bishop Josip Juraj Strossmayer to Mr. William E. Gladstone, February 13, 1878".
  8. ^ Strossmayer, Bishop Josip Juraj (1911). "Letter of Bishop Josip Juraj Strossmayer to Mr. William E. Gladstone, April 11, 1878".
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