Talk:Schleswig-Holstein

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History section, lacking citations[edit]

I have, just now, noticed that there's only 1 citation in the history section, at the very end. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Torspedia (talk • contribs) 08:22, 8 November 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Denmark relationship[edit]

The historical part of the article is confused: It appears that King Christian IX of Denmark had only daughters and that he was dying around 1864 (he lived until 1906!). Also, the king was king of Denmark and (until 1864) duke (not king) of Schleswig-Holstein.

The text needs re-writing by someone who masters the very complicated history.

S.

I think that the article meant Christian VIII of Denmark !

The king dying in 1863 was Frederick VII of Denmark. He was childless. --Valentinian 14:17, 20 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

In order to make it more accurate, I've removed the following paragraphs:

For its part, however, the Danish Crown was not overly concerned with this development, partly because Schleswig and Holstein seemed to have always belonged to Denmark; partly because this was before the era of Nation-states and there was nothing strange with several different languages being spoken by the sovereign's subjects; and also because no powerful state in the south had ever challenged its power. In his role as a Duke of Holstein the King of Denmark actually belonged to the Holy Roman Empire of German nation, i.e. Germany of those times.
A dramatic and strange collision of national interests would however occur when certain, previously avoided, basic factors came into play with the opening of the 1800s.
The first, the odd fact that although Schleswig and Holstein had indeed belonged to the Crown of Denmark for ages past, it was in fact, in a most technical sense, a separate state, the unseparable Duchies of Schleswig and Holstein. Indeed, Schleswig, Holstein and Denmark had the same ruler (the 'King' of Denmark and the 'Duke' of Schleswig and Holstein, but due to international treaty obligations originating centuries earlier, there was never any actual legal unification of the two areas.
The second fact however, proved problematic. As a matter of House-Law and State Succession Laws, which together form the legal conditions which govern the inheritance of Noble honours and privileges - Schleswig Holstein could never be inherited by a female, whilst the Kingdom of Denmark could. So-called Salic Law governed Schleswig-Holstein, that is, as part of feudal tradition which states that since women cannot contribute to military defense, they may not inherit land - Schleswig Law, as agreed to in earlier times, quite specifically forbade female inheritance. The Law of the Kingdom of Denmark, on the other hand, was cognatic - not discriminating by gender.
Unfortunately for Denmark -- at a time which proved opportune for the Dutchies' primarily German population -- it was observed that the Frederik VII had only daughters, and no sons. By ancient obligation, the one land must be inherited by the Danish Crown Princess, and the other by a male - a cousin of the son-less Danish King who happened to be German by speech and custom.

The confusion above needs to be straightened out.
-- Ruhrjung 23:17 19 May 2003 (UTC)

An important component in the Schleswig-Holstein problem was that German nationalists claimed that the Salic Law applied to both Holstein and Schleswig while Danish nationalists claimed that Denmark and Schleswig had the same law of succession but that Holstein followed the Salic Law. Valentinian (talk) / (contribs) 23:49, 12 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I don't have the text of the peace treaty to hand, but as I recall its paragraph 5 had some fascinating stuff about the "grandfathered" transitional method of sorting out issues about the transferred population, the "optant" method. Perhaps someone can look it up and incorporate material from it. (Note: there is another significant paragraph 5 in Danish history, the one in the penal code used in the 19th century to close down houses of ill repute - one in Copenhagen was closed so often it became known as the "Paragraph 5"!) PML.

What is so special about the Frisian dialect spoken on Helgoland that it needs a reference in the Languages paragraph? Actually the correct term would be "Halluner". Also, there are a multitude of North Frisian dialects. Halluner is closely related to Fering and Ömrang which is spoken on Föhr and Amrum, respectively. I think this reference can simply be removed.
JK 19:37 11 June 2006 (UTC)

From Blackbourn, History of Germany, 1780-1918, I think it can be deduced that Bismarck could complain that the succession was being used to reduce Prussia's influence in Europe. He turned it to what he thought was his advantage. The British government was not pleased with the result, but seems to have judged that Britain just did not have the military power to deny Prussia. On the other hand, the alliance forged between the British and Danish royal families could have tipped the delicate balance in Britain whether to form an alliance with France and Russia to try and curtail Germany's economic strength leading to 1914. Michael Moore, Stockport. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Pantheist (talk • contribs) 20:24, 10 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Expellees[edit]

Someone with some solid, data-based info might add a sentence or two about the significant number of eastern-German expellees who settled in Schleswig-Holstein after 1945. A very large number were landed there after being evacuated by sea from Danzig (Gdańsk) and Pillau (Baltiysk) before those ports were overrun by the Red Army. I read somewhere that a fairly large number remained in Schleswig-Holstein.

Sca 17:16, 25 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I believe you are correct about the expellees, although refugees might be a more accurate word than expellees. As I understand it, they were not kicked out of their home areas by the advancing Soviet forces but were fleeing to avoid the revenge that they feared from the Soviets. My mother grew up in Schleswig-Holstein and was 18 when WW II ended. She remembers a large influx of refugees ("fluechtlingers" in German) arriving in the last months of the war. She hasn't said a lot about which specific areas they came from or how long they stayed but I could probably find out from her and relatives still in the area. Mind you, I don't suppose Wikipedia actually wants that kind of anecdotal evidence, preferring articles published online....

Rhino (talk) 13:26, 25 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Post World War II Referendum?[edit]

Was there any kind of referendum - or discussion of having a referendum - in Schleswig-Holstein after World War Two so that the remainder of Schleswig could join Denmark? My mother, who grew up there, has mentioned that there was a referendum and that sentiment among native Schleswig-Holsteiners was in favour of joining Denmark. However, she says that the large number of refugees in the area did not favour the proposal and it was defeated. Now, I'm not clear on whether such a referendum actually took place or was just proposed but never happened. Or maybe my mother is just confusing the 1920 Referendum with events just after WW II. She describes these events as if they happened while she was around but the 1920 Referendum was before she was born so I'm inclined to think that at least talk of a referendum took place after WW II.

It seems to me that if such a referendum took place after WW II it should be included in this article, even though Schleswig-Holstein ultimately remained part of Germany. Even serious talk of such a referendum seems like something that should be mentioned, even if it is only a sentence or two.

Rhino (talk) 13:26, 25 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Rhino (talk) 13:26, 25 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Languages[edit]

The official languages are German, Low German, Danish, and Frisian.

The last time I visited Germany, in 1999, I was told by people who had recently visited Schleswig-Holstein, that a lot of the locals were refusing to speak anything but Low German (Plattdeutsch) to visitors from other parts of Germany, even though they were all perfectly fluent in High German (Hochdeutsch). Apparently, this was seen as an expression of Schleswig-Holstein nationalism. I realize this is entirely anecdotal but I wonder is someone in or close to the area might be able to shed some light on this phenomenon and provide actual citations to show the extent and motivation of this movement? Rhino (talk) 13:32, 25 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Though I'm not from Schleswig-Holstein but Mecklenburg, I know many people from there. Afaik few people do actually speak Low German and those who do will speak High German to anybody who wouldn't understand them.--MacX85 (talk) 15:48, 24 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
To my knowledge it is not taught in school, however I have heard that there is a "movement" to revive low German in order to preserve the area's culture. My parents, who grew up there during WWII, are probably the last generation to really speak it on a daily basis. --THE FOUNDERS INTENT PRAISE 19:17, 24 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Wind Energy[edit]

Some mention might be made of their impressive wind power infrastructure, I don't think i'm the one to do it.MennoMan (talk) 18:14, 25 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Land Seal[edit]

Someone may need to look into the legalities of the land seal we are using. The state website suggests, there is an "Approved" public use state seal and one that is for use by the STATE ONLY!!! Just something to look into.MKLPTR 22:18, 3 December 2007 (UTC) from the Schleswig-Holstein landesportal on the Landeswappen[reply]
(DE)
Verbände, Firmen, Vereine und andere Institutionen fragen häufig bei der Landesregierung an, ob sie das Landeswappen auf Briefköpfen abdrucken oder bei ihrer Öffentlichkeitsarbeit verwenden dürfen. Das offizielle Landeswappen dürfen nur Landesbehörden und Notare benutzen. Die Landesregierung stellt jedoch ein abgewandeltes Landeswappen zur Verfügung. Es ist dem Wappen sehr ähnlich und kann von jedermann verwendet werden. Das abgewandelte Landeswappen kann am Ende des Textes heruntergeladen werden.
Von: [1]http://schleswig-holstein.de/Portal/DE/LandLeute/Landeswappen/Landeswappen__node.html__nnn=true
(EN)
Associations, companies, clubs and other institutions often ask the Land Government whether they may print the Land coat of arms on letter-heads or use it in their public relations work. The official Land coat of arms may only be used by Land authorities and notaries. However, the Land Government does offer a modified coat of arms. It is very similar to the official one and can be used by everyone. It is available for download at the end of the text.
Source: http://schleswig-holstein.de/Portal/EN/Service/CoatArms/CoatArms.html [2]
-MKLPTR

History of the word "Schleswig".[edit]

Some ethnolonguistic studies conclude that the state's namesake and the term "Slesvig" was partially derived from a tribe of West Slavs known as "Slavsvick" that once lived in the state between the 5th century and 10th century AD.

This really needs a citation or else it needs to be deleted. I'm quite sure this comes from "Schlei's vík" (Bay of the Schlei - right where the town of Schleswig is currently located). In the Knýlinga Saga, the term "Slésvik" is used complete with native Old Norse grammar (indicating it is a term native to the language): "Ok er Knútr lávarðr litla stund heima verit í ríki sínu þá aflaði hann smiða ok lét gera kastala tveim megin Slésvikr, þar sem mjóst er yfir sundit, er útan gengr at Heiðabý." Can anyone back up claims of a heretofore never heard of Slavic tribe? 64.52.114.34 (talk) 19:15, 29 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I have removed the claim. It had been tagged for lack of sources since October 2008. --Saddhiyama (talk) 20:33, 29 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Culture[edit]

I think the Kieler Woche/Kiel Week should be included into the list of the most important festivals, it is the biggest sailing event in the world after all. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kiel_Week) 46.142.41.127 (talk) 09:53, 20 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Neumünster[edit]

I'm not sure why Neumünster should be called "notable". Usually the three cities every German knows are Kiel (Capital, Harbour, Kieler Förde, Kiel Week, THW Kiel), Lübeck (rich history, tourist magnet, Hanseatic League, marzipan, World Heritage Site, Holstentor) and Flensburg (nationwide database of traffic violators, northernmost city of Germany, Flensburg Firth). But Neumünster has nothing to offer.--212.53.170.18 (talk) 17:39, 27 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Neumünster has served as a major industrial city, and still does in many ways, which is why it remains a notable city of the state. Ari-Jess (talk) 12:39, 1 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

"The former English name was Sleswick-Holsatia..."[edit]

Does anyone have a citation for the last time this may have been used? I have never seen this term, in reading any contemporary texts from the past 300 years. I suspect that it may have been used as recently as the mid-1800th century, but that is just a guess. Since the article's author as stated with conviction, "The former English name was Sleswick-Holsatia...", I'm curious to know.

Best regards, TheBaron0530 (talk) 17:08, 28 November 2016 (UTC)theBaron0530[reply]

Question about a fine point of the history[edit]

The section on the "Plebiscite in 1920" contains this sentence: "In 1937, the Nazis passed the so-called Greater Hamburg Act (Groß-Hamburg-Gesetz), where the nearby Free and Hanseatic City of Hamburg was expanded, to encompass towns that had formally belonged to the Prussian province of Schleswig-Holstein."

I suspect that the word "formally" is a mistake and that "formerly" is meant. I don't know enough about the subject to be bold, however, so I'll just flag the question here. JamesMLane t c 17:35, 25 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Other questions?[edit]

I wrote about cuisine, economy, transport and radioactive contamination. What further questions are interesting? Do somebody have a good photo of marzipan, rotspon, rum and lakritz candy?

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion[edit]

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