Talk:Voith Schneider Propeller

Untitled

The title of this article was changed by a possible vandal, request move back to original title 'Voith Schneider Propeller'. Aldis90 (talk) 05:43, 6 March 2008 (UTC)

This propulsion system really requires a diagram. Geo Swan 18:10, 23 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Animation

I've made and added an animation of a VSP which I think helps explain how it works. Any comments? Chrisjohnson (talk) 17:45, 5 May 2008 (UTC)

Sorry to say that, but I think the animation shows another effect than the propeller is using. Like visualized in the VSPforces.jpg picture, the force used works similar to a planes wing. I am pretty sure that it does not push the water as illustrated in the animation. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.221.98.214 (talk) 19:28, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

The VSP drive works by producing lift similar to the wing of an airplane. The animation does reproduce the action of a VSP drive components, but at nearly a 100% pitch setting. The high pitch is inefficient at low speeds where a lot of energy is lost to turbulence, and therefore does not adequately demonstrate the principles of operation. Also, pointing in the opposite direction of the thrust, the arrows in the animation give the appearance that the VSP drive is pushing the water instead of generating lift. The appearance of pushing water incorrectly gives the impression that the drive works similar to a paddle wheel. A better demonstration would show the drive operating at a lower pitch, show the lift vector for each blade, and show an overall thrust vector for the unit. Voith Turbo has a good demonstration.--Davdforg (talk) 20:51, 11 May 2011 (UTC)

verbal description

I don't think the verbal description that replaced mine is any clearer than mine. Less so in fact. This article really requires a diagram. -- Geo Swan 17:10, 13 Jan 2005 (UTC)

The z-drive paragraph draws comparison between z-drives and kort nozzles. I'm not an expert, but I do have a reasonable working knowlege of each system. Whilst I can see how a z-drive could be compared with a VSP, I don't believe a kort nozzle is directly related to either as a kort nozzle is intended to increase the efficiency of a propeller, not influence the direction of thrust. I believe the author of this paragraph intended to write schottel or Azimuth thruster instead of kort nozzle. --mralston

History

Not sure if it belongs here, but the airscrew section needs help. Following the Wrights, wooden airscrews progressed from a "windmill" profile in WW1 aircraft to a recognizably modern shape soon after. Then metal props appeared, along with constant speed and variable pitch, then hollow blades, wide-chord ("paddle" blades, problems with tip speed approaching Mach 1, very thin & very wide-chord (hypersonic) blades (tested on the RF-84H), & finally the "propfan". Trekphiler 15:01, 18 December 2005 (UTC)

Additional Information

The info re Woolwich Ferries is out of date, they were replaced with new boats a year or two ago. Sorry I am new to Wikipedia editing so please forgive any errors in etiquette! Simonjudge (talk) 10:18, 18 September 2020 (UTC)

Sorry, I have only just noticed your comment. I have made the necessary change. TriodeFollower (talk) 12:45, 5 February 2024 (UTC)

Links: [1] [2] [3]

Interactive Demo: [4]

Publications: "Der Voith Schneider Propeller als Schiffsmodellantrieb" Author: Kurt Benz ISBN 3-922414-10-9 "Der VSP-Antrieb im Schiffsmodell" Author: Theodor Vieweg ISBN 3-7883-187-2

F. K. Kirsten

You may want to research F. K. Kirsten's contribution to the cycloidal drive. According to his granddaughter, who operated the F. K. Kirsten tobacco store at Fishermen's Terminal in Seattle, Dr. Kirsten developed the cycloidal drive while a professor of Aeronautical Engineering at the University of Washington in the 1930's. The drive systen was originally intended for use on blimps. The US Navy experimented with the design, but not much interest was shown. In the 1950's Dr. Kirsten sold the design to Voith-Schneider in Germany. At least that is the story I heard. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.19.105.185 (talk) 06:04, 22 September 2012 (UTC)

Z-drive

I don't see why the author used "Z-drive" instead of "azimuth thruster". The VSP serves the same function as an azimuth thruster; it only operates in a different manner. From the page on the azimuth thruster: "An azimuth thruster is a configuration of marine propellers placed in pods that can be rotated in any horizontal angle (azimuth), making a rudder unnecessary." These all consist of propellers that can be rotated to direct thrust; "Z-drive" and "L-drive" are merely two different mechanical ways to drive the same system. It can also be electric powered, but the basic function is the same for all of them. Thus, the paragraph should say "azimuth thruster", which may be of the Z-drive, L-drive, or electric powered type. There is nothing making a Z-drive different from the other two except it has a different drive system. That's like saying that there is a fundamental difference in the way a car with a longitudinal engine and one with a transverse engine operate. There is not; there is only a difference in the way the engine transmits the power to the wheels.

Entry on Z-drive: "A Z-drive is a type of marine propulsion unit. Specifically, it is an azimuth thruster. The pod can rotate 360 degrees allowing for rapid changes in thrust direction and thus vessel direction. This eliminates the need for a conventional rudder.

Entry on L-drive: "An L-drive is a type of azimuth thruster in which the pod-mounted propellers are driven mechanically rather than electrically. Azimuth thruster pods can be rotated through a full 360 degrees, allowing for rapid changes in thrust direction and eliminating the need for a conventional rudder. This form of power transmission is called a L-drive because the rotary motion has to make one right angle turn, thus looking a bit like the letter "L". This name is used to make clear the arrangement of drive is different from Z-drive."

These are both descriptors of the drive train; externally the pods are identical. A third type is the electrical transmission Azipod, which "...are more commonly called pods, where an electric motor is fitted in the pod itself, connected directly to the propeller without gears." As opposed to L or Z-drives, which are mechanical.

All three of the types supply directed thrust, replacing the function of the rudder, thus I took issue with the sentence in this article saying that the VSP "is unlike the Z-drive (which should say "azimuth thruster"), which relies on a rudder to steer". That is completely inconsistent with all three of the articles mentioned above. Also, a Kort nozzle is not an azimuth thruster; they can be used to direct thrust by placing a rudder in the output flow, or they can be utilized directly on the propellers of an azimuth thruster (as you can see in the second image on the azimuth thruster page) , but they are not azimuth thrusters. Their function is to improve low speed efficiency..45Colt 09:10, 26 March 2014 (UTC)

Title

Shouldn't the title be "Voith Schneider propeller" (lowercase in "p")?

--Mortense (talk) 17:11, 21 July 2020 (UTC)