Talk:San Gabriel Valley

Old comments

That map you've got there is just *wrong*. The 710 freeway in no way continues to the 210 freeway and that is clear from an image associated with the Long Beach Freeway article located here. The representation of the San Gabriel Valley is weird and skewed. It looks like you've put it way into the Angeles National Forest on the east end and don't even include Pasadena north of Interstate 210 or Altadena. Plus, South Pasadena is part of the San Gabriel Valley on the west end. Arguably, your map should also include San Dimas, Pomona, California, Claremont, California, La Verne and Diamond Bar in the east. Ingyhere 01:34, 16 July 2006 (UTC)

Also, where are the citations for your definition of the San Gabriel Valley? Is this arbitrary, from a USGS definition, from a Census definition or from a governnmental definition (as in Los Angeles County)? Where is Cal Poly? Why is Rio Hondo College listed when Whittier isn't even part of the San Gabriel Valley? There are too many statements in this article missing basic citations or the foundations from other citations. Ingyhere 01:53, 16 July 2006 (UTC)

I've worked on this article exclusively. It was part of my thesis paper on urban development during my university years. However, given the short attention spans of many people, I tried to make the Wikipedia article as less "scholarly" as possible and spruce it up by adding tourist sites etc.

It is my hope to include some in-depth analysis on the changing face of the San Gabriel Valley and what it means for the United States (as well as cite the sources I've been using) on my own Web site.

S.

What do you mean by saying you've worked on this article exclusively? Other people have contributed to this article as well. Moncrief 00:44, Apr 2, 2004 (UTC)

I've done most of the research, spending the time to interview many people within the community and talking to several elected officials to gain their insights, driving to and visiting the sites, the bulk of the writing, while you just sit there like a vegetable mindlessly staring at your screen and deleting and altering the hard work of others just because you feel you're doing a "service" to this great site. But I'm not about to be engaged in your little flame wars.

I see you just deleted my work just some time ago after I spent time doing further research and verifying the information. Wikipedia is a great concept, it's just some other users/members that are frustrating who feel they are in charge.

S.

Like I say and as I have heard some other people warn me about their Wikipedia experience: people will be quick to delete stuff but not so quick in adding new information.

" Social problems such as crime, drug abuse, vandalism by graffiti and other means, failing schools, poverty, and youth gangs are steadily on the rise throughout the San Gabriel Valley. " I'm curious, how does one figure that? From what i can tell crime is down in the SGV and as are youth gangs. In fact, the San Gabriel Valley Tribune did a story on it.

If anyone disagrees with something in the article, he should discuss it here before deleting it. That's standard wiki etiquette.

Also, please sign your name to your comments with four tildes so the rest of us can see the user names and time stamps of the comments.

I want to discuss the possible addition of something to the article. I heard in a Jul 19, 2005 radio broadcast on 1070 KNX-AM that the currently dominant industry in the San Gabriel Valley is international trade logistics (thanks to City of Industry and Walnut, I'll bet). The KNX newsperson that reported this tidbit interviewed a person associated with its source, but I didn't catch the name of that person or the source. Does this tidbit not qualify for addition to the article because of my inability to cite its source? If it qualifies for addition, is it worth adding? If it's worth adding, I think that the greatest contributor to the article should add it. John Rigali 08:02, July 21, 2005 (UTC)

I think the bit about KUSC should be deleted, as they are not in the region. Likewise, the reference to Inglewood is not particularly relevant. Overall, there's a huge gap of information about the Mexican American community in the SGV. They have been here (there) a long time, since before Guadalupe-Hidalgo, and have been a majority or large minority in almost all the SGV cities. Likewise, it would be good to add information about the Californios, as well as old California families from the 1800s. The SGV is the power-base for Hispanic politics, and is one of the rare places that seems to produce Hispanic polticos like they're going out of style. I added the fact that African-Americans have resided in Pasadena since before emancipation, and I think that merits expansion. Jackie Robinson is from Pasadena! There are also Italian, Serbian, Armenian, and Middle-Eastern communities in the SGV. I modified the comment about "white flight" -- you can change it back if you wish. The migration of people out of the SGV was partly racist white flight, but was also encouraged to the price-inflation of houses during the 1980s. Usually, "white flight" refers to people moving from an area because they think property values will sink, but, generally, house prices in the SGV have been pretty good and generally increased relative to other areas. Also, many of the people leaving the area are not white; many are Asian and Hispanic, and they're leaving because of a kind of suburban "gentrification" due to "mansionization". Also, the current trend has been that white and black families are moving into the SGV, and Asian immigrants spreading out. Last, I'm not into having a lot of businesses listed, because it encourages advertisement. (Besides, you all excluded Jim's Burgers, Southern Cal Edison, City of Hope, Sriracha. j/k) I agree that the role of logistics should be highlighted. It's emerging as a significant force in the global economy, and obviously has affected the area. Despite all my comments, I thought it was a very good article overall, and hope to add a little here and there to balance it out. 66.245.214.143 21:52, 9 November 2005 (UTC)

I have deleted the reference to University of the West as being "for profit." It is a non profit school. You can view the university's catalog on its Web page (www.uwest.edu), where it states the schools non profit status. - JK

White flight

The end of the timeline says White Flight is from 1980s to present day. What proof is there that there is still White flight in the area? I believe whites are now moving because housing is cheaper further east outside San Gabriel Valley, then becuase whites are moving becuase the area is getting non-white, which was the case in the past, but not really now. The area has been mostly hispanic and asian for years now, I know I live in La Puente, in the heart of the San Gabriel Valley. What signifies the end of this so called "White flight"? -- AlexTheMartian | Talk 02:41, 3 January 2006 (UTC)

I changed "Present" to 1990s, according tho what is said at the top of the People section of the article. I also believe the White flight movement in the San Gabriel Valley diminished durring the late 1990s. -- AlexTheMartian | Talk 02:51, 3 January 2006 (UTC)

South Pasadena is really attractive to white homebuyers, the suburban community is home to many African-Americans, Asian-Americans and Hispanics...a testiment to the diversity of the valley and Los Angeles area. The southwest part of Pasadena was gentrified over the last two decades, used to have a largely Black community after the displacement of the Japanese during WWII. The number of minorities in Pasadena and surrounding areas remain lower than most of the San Gabriel valley including Covina which is home to South Asians, but there's a large Armenian community in the valley (included in European-Americans). The number of Hispanics in La Puente are close to 90 percent in the 2010 Census report, then I suppose the returning of whites (non-Hispanics or Anglos) in the valley may reverse the trend. 71.102.12.48 (talk) 19:17, 15 November 2012 (UTC) 19:17, 15 November 2012 (UTC)

Walmartization

Removed, from the bullshit paragraph "Walmartization" the following "Due to wide spread public opposition" due to POV and it being blatantly bullshit. Please resubmit with reference. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.215.157.32 (talk) 16:37, 7 April 2007

The mere inclusion of any reference, positive or negative, is POV. There six Mervyn's stores in the same geo. region and fourteen Walgreen's drugstores. So what? Walmart is neither a company located within the SGV nor possessed of any especial importance in the areas history or development. I am removing the reference.

A journey of a thousand miles...........

Sensei48 (talk) 22:28, 26 September 2008 (UTC)

...Begins With A Single Step

At the head of the Talk page are several posts by someone who identifies him/herself as S and who claims authorship of much of this article.

a) S clearly is not an experienced Wikipedian - not of itself any particular kind of failing - but creating or substantially altering an article here without either regard for the processes or conventions of this site is at least ill-advised and at worst an outright affront to those who do. b) S includes not a single source, which accounts for both the outright ignorance and blatant POV of large sections of this article. And speaking of arrogant and offensive remarks - S accounts for said sourceless writing by asserting "the short attention spans of many people." Such a comment in and of itself ought to be grounds for an editing ban and deletion of this article - but Wiki is more tolerant than I would be.

S admits that s/he is not a resident of SGV and asserts that the content of this article results from a university paper, some driving visits, and conversations with unnamed local officials. As a college teacher for 36 years in the SGV - and a resident of SGV (Monterey Park and Alhambra, to be exact) during most of that time - I can only say that I hope S's paper failed, or at least was returned with the charge of doing a more thorough and accurate job.

I have considered nominating this as WP:AFD - it's that bad. But the more common Wiki course is to work to improve the article - in this case, a genuinely Herculean job. Hence...the single step above of removing a small bit of utterly irrelevant information.

Assuredly more to come. Sensei48 (talk) 23:11, 26 September 2008 (UTC)

Snow in SGV...sorry never heared of it!

It does not snow in the San G valley, unless you can provide a source you can write that but until then you cant! And also those types of temperatures can not support snow, the SG valley rarly goes below frezzing and when it does its when there's clear skies, frost occurs but no snow, Sorry! itzzHouse1090duhh (talk) 04:19, 2 May 2009 (UTC)

As you seem to be an experienced Wikipedian, you should know better than your edit summary indicated. Personal experience as in your edit summary - "Never snows in SGV, sorry (personal experiance)" [sic] - is never a WP:RS. If it were., I would simply relate that in the thirty years I have lived and worked in SGV, I have frequently seen snow on the ground on residential city blocks in Altadena and Sierra Madre, and even on occasion in Pasadena. The edit you are trying to revert stated "very rarely," which is accurate.

"Never" is unsupportable, especially from your limited "personal experience." For starter sourcing - historical:

[1] - note 1932 - and

[2] -Note date of 12/2008

[3] - average annual snowfall = 1" (under "Climate" hyperlink)

[4] - note historical record for 1/12 -1/13/1949 - snow on the civic center in Pasadena.

[5]Informally: - historic picture:

[6]Arcadia downtown police dept - 1994

[7] Monrovia, January/08

Additionally, here in the north SGV, the temperature frequently dips below freezing in December and January; frost is a continual issue for gardeners. It also might be wise to be less doctrinaire, given the personal experience (limited as it is) nature of your edit. "Never" is a comprehensive and exclusionary term; the original point was "rarely", which isn't in itself entirely accurate, as you can see that Sierra Madre lists an annual snowfall.

All of this justifies "rarely," to say the least, and refutes "never". Sensei48 (talk) 05:48, 2 May 2009 (UTC)

Actualy those are the Mountains and higher foothills. The San G Mountains rarley get snow and the San G valley at only around 625ft (highest) and 325Ft (Median/average), you can not write that it rarley snows because its only a once in a life time thing. To see snow in so cal you must live in or above 1500 feet (maily eastern cali, High country in SB/Riverdie Counties). There for it does not belong here. I will write that frost can occur in the valley but never heard of snow, hail yes but not snow. I lived in Azusa and Baldin Park never saw or heard about snow in the San G valley itzzHouse1090duhh (talk) 18:02, 2 May 2009 (UTC)

Arcadia and Pasadena - cited above - are NOT in the mountains or higher foothills. Sensei48 (talk) 19:22, 2 May 2009 (UTC)

Well, I can live with your last edit of snow being "extremely rare in the Valley," though U.S Weather Service statistics for several of these SGV communities do in fact list an "annual snowfall." But your statement above is just not accurate and clearly demonstrates why WP:OR is not acceptable sourcing. Sierra Madre and Altadena are sometimes called "foothill communities," as are Monrovia and Glendora. All of those report some snow annually, every couple of years below the 1,000 ft level. Even 1500 feet is squarely within the "residential city blocks" of those communities. But the communities that are actually "Mountains and higher foothills" include La Canada-Flintridge, in which snow is an annual occurrence. The danger here is trying to base a general statement on personal experience, and that experience is founded on an apparently incomplete understanding of what constitutes the SGV. Additionally - even "once in a lifetime" - and 1932, 1949, 1964, 1994, and 2006 as above is much more than that - is not "never." Once I get the proper stats - from the USGS for the precise official definition of SGV and the various USWS pages for the cities - we'll just get rid of this highly inaccurate set of statements altogether. And snow in SG mountains is "rare"???? There are ski resorts in them, a couple just above La Canada. It's an annual occurrence in the mountains.Sensei48 (talk) 19:22, 2 May 2009 (UTC)

Yea I was thinking Azusa foothills not San G mountains. I hope everything is settled. Best wishes itzzHouse1090duhh (talk) 19:32, 2 May 2009 (UTC)

Well, the way you wrote it in the article was correct! Good edits because we found a nice compromise! Regards, Sensei48 (talk) 20:00, 2 May 2009 (UTC)

Most expensive zip codes

Does this REALLY contribute to the article? Forbes "Most Expensive ZIP Codes"' published in 2008 features nine ZIPs within the San Gabriel Valley that rank within the top 500 cities with the most expensive homes in the United States.

• San Marino, 91108 (#47)
• Bradbury, 91008 (#62)
• La Canada Flintridge, 91011 (#85)
• Pasadena, 91105 (#227)
• South Pasadena, 91030 (#265)
• Sierra Madre, 91024 (#347)
• Arcadia, 91006 (#406)
• Pasadena, 91107 (#476)
• Arcadia, 91007 (#494)

References

Help

In its original form, the article would have you believe that Pasadena and the Asian culture are the predominant subjects of the San Gabriel Valley. It's colorful history was condensed to a "timeline". Citations are almost non-existent. There is a tremendous amount of work to be done in this project. It is disturbing that such a skewed article was allowed to stand for such a long time. Objective editing would be much appreciated, if any other editor would like to team up. DocOfSoc (talk) 13:29, 9 September 2010 (UTC)

"I've worked on this article exclusively. It was part of my thesis paper on urban development during my university years." I would have given this article a "D" but now it makes sense now. DocOfSoc (talk) 13:46, 10 September 2010 (UTC)

Since you're asking for feedback, I have a quibble with this line:

• On September 10, 2010, San Gabriel Valley officials urged the Metropolitan Transportation Authority to consider extending a light-rail line from East Los Angeles through Industry to the Diamond Bar border.[32]

Is it really notable when "San Gabriel Valley officials" urge another government body to do something? Even if this expression of local government opinion were itself notable, would we need the exact date? I mean, compared to all of the other events in SGV history is this one of the few which deserve this much attention? Otherwise, the rest looks good. Thanks for the effort!   Will Beback  talk  09:42, 13 September 2010 (UTC)

Metrolink extension I saved the link because it will be important if the new football stadium gets built, but not untill then. TY for popping in I appreciate it! Namaste--DocOfSoc (talk) 12:41, 13 September 2010 (UTC)

I never heard of the new football stadium in the city of Industry approved, unless you're referring to Farmers Field in Downtown Los Angeles about to become a reality if only the NFL grants a team to the Los Angeles area. May there be a better option for mass transit in the San Gabriel Valley because they do need it. 71.102.12.48 (talk) 19:19, 15 November 2012 (UTC)

Map

It seems somewhat unhelpful that there isn't a clear map of the region on the page. Does anybody think they could take the Wikimedia map of LA County and highlight the San Gabriel Valley area?--Prisencolinensinainciusol (talk) 23:57, 27 May 2015 (UTC)

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