Talk:Kannada script

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please take a note of old kannada inscription http://www.thehindu.com/2008/09/20/stories/2008092054690500.htm

from the latest research

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Writing System

Is Kannada used to write any language currently other than Kannada? FrancisTyers 01:39, 13 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Apart from the omnipresent Sanskrit:

Kannada Script
Used in 3 Indian languages, including:
Kannada, Lamani (Karnatak), Tulu.

http://www.storage-way.com/code/scripts.htm

Pjacobi

Yes, indeed. Being the common script in the state of Karnataka, languages other than kannada, that have a presence in karnataka, are usually wriiten in the kannada script. For example, tulu, konkani, etc. Kartheeque 08:46, 13 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Yes, kannada script is used to write tulu,konkani(only in karnataka,in maharasthra and goa,they use devanagiri script.),coorgi and lamani.--Jayanthv86 11:33, 25 January 2006 (UTC)

Yes again. My mother tongue is a dialect of tamil spoken by a group of people who emigrated into the old Mysore area from Tamilnadu a few centuries back. The dialect, whenever it is actually written, most naturally gets written in Kannada script. Apart from this, we continue to retain contact with old Tamil literature of a certain kind. It gets propagated in published form in Kannada script. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 148.87.1.171 (talk) 23:14, 4 October 2007 (UTC)

Graphical representation?

Could somebody provide a graphic showing the characters? That would be a big help for some of us. --Sean Lotz 06:01, 25 August 2006 (UTC)

It has been provided in the article under the sections Vowels and Consonants. There are 15 vowels and 34 (25+9) consonants. Hope this helps. - KNM ^{Talk - Contribs} 04:06, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

Vowel diacritics

Where are the vowel diacritics? The symbols used in conjunction with consonants? --SameerKhan 20:50, 18 February 2007 (UTC)

Consonant Conjucts

I've noticed that the way that the Consonant Conjuncts table displays the combined consonants doesn't match with the way it shows up in print. Or even in the Kannada language version of this page.

So specifically, ರ್ವ shows up in the table as ರ್‍ವ. I am not at all literate in Kannada, but I'm led to think they are the same because if I do a search in the browser page for ರ್ವ, it takes me to ರ್‍ವ in the table. So somewhere they're the same. However, I'm only seeing ರ್ವ used in actual text. For other examples, the Kannada version of this page has the words ನವರ್ಗದಿಂ, ವರ್ಣದಿಂ, etc. However, they don't show up in the table. It would help if someone could explain why this is, or change the table if necessary. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Savalou (talk • contribs) 09:07, 5 September 2016 (UTC)

Hi, Savalou - I noticed that too so I made the correction in the chart. It looks like a zero-width joiner was inserted within the consonant cluster in order to prevent a form like ರ್ವ from appearing. --Chris S. (talk) 01:34, 30 November 2019 (UTC)

Proto-Telugu

Kannada script originated from Proto-Telugu script which evolved from a variant of Asokan Brahmi script found on the urn containing Buddha's relics from the stupa of Bhattiprolu in Guntur district of Andhra Pradesh. The following reference gives a graphical account of how Telugu script evolved from proto-Telugu script and subsequently gave rise to Kannada script (See Figure 1a and 1b):

(http://www.engr.mun.ca/~adluri/telugu/language/script/script1d.html)

The origin of proto-Telugu script lies in the Brahmi script written on the urn found from Bhattiprolu stupa which was older than Satavahana times. Satavahanas used this script and spread it over Maharashtra and Karnataka regions which they ruled for about 400 years. The strong resemblance of modern Thai, Laos, Javanese and Balinese scripts to Telugu script is because of the spread of proto-Telugu script from coastal Andhra to east Asia along with Buddhism (from Ghantasala and Masulipatnam ports). The Chalukayas, originally hailing from Rayalaseema region (Kadapa-Kurnool) of Andhra Pradesh, used the script to write Telugu and Kannada languages. The script is known to historians as Telugu-Kannada script. One may refer to the displays about the evolution of scripts in National Museum in Delhi. Adikavi Pampa and his brother were Telugu Brahmins of ancient Kammanadu (same region as Bhattiprolu) who embraced Jainism, sought the patronage of Chalukyan kings and wrote the earliest literary works of Kannada language. The script of the mother tongue of Pampa influenced their contributions to Kannada. Some enthusiasts insist use the words "Old Kannada" or "Hale Kannada", which I feel is not right.Kumarrao 06:58, 14 June 2007 (UTC)

Sir Mr KumarRao, Now I am completely convinced you are trying to rewrite South Indian history by taking a POV website as your reference material. Nowhere is there a shred of evidence the Chalukyas came from Cuddapah. Just reading that website which says "the Chalukyas relearnt telugu" shows the author, if there is one, is not a historian. Just because Pampa came from Vengi does not make him a Telugu speaker (you cant prove that, can you) nor does it mean Kannada script came from Telugu script. In fact I have never heard of any scholarly reference to a proto-Telugu script in all the books I have read. In addition to the POV website you quote, you are adding your own POV to it. Please provide me with an authoritative source which proves the Kannda script came from Telugu script, not a POV website.Dineshkannambadi 11:34, 14 June 2007 (UTC)

The same site you are claiming from also claims Telugu script evolved from "old-Kannada script"!!! which I have cut and paste for your perusal. Please read [1]Dineshkannambadi 12:07, 14 June 2007 (UTC)

Not sure whether the guy who has written the webpage is a scholar enough to talk about language scripts. This is what he has mentioned in his own webpage, {The material in this page is only a cursory presentation created to introduce the samples of inscriptions outlining the evolution of present day Telugu script. Knowledgeable experts are urged to make scholarly material about Telugu script available on the Internet.} Lets talk about some articles written by some scholars here rather than some website. I can as well myself write a blog saying Telugu evolved from Somalian script and cite that in the Telugu script article, but that wont be the truth right? -- Amarrg 12:54, 14 June 2007 (UTC)

Cautionary Note: The figure indicates the most probable routes for the evolution of modern scripts. Care must be taken in reading these routes. For example, Telugu script has been shown as a descendent of "old Kannada" script. It does not in any way mean that the language (as opposed to the script) has descended from Kannada. Kannada became a literate language slightly ahead of Telugu. For example, both Kannada and Telugu had produced poetry during the eighth century. Kannada writers had also produced full-fledged literary works in the ninth century. But it was two more centuries before major poetic works in Telugu became available. That is the reason for the combined Telugu-Kannada script to have been called as the "old Kannada." This in turn does not mean that Telugu people were non-literate during the periods when Kannada and Tamil people were producing works of literature. Writers in Telugu land had been continuously engaged in creating literary, religious or philosophical works in Prakrit and Sanskrit from long before Christ. While the Tamil and Kannada writers had switched to writing in their local languages in the first century CE and the eighth century CE respectively, Telugu writers waited till the 11th century. The major reasons for this state of affairs include socio-political factors such as royal patronage and the influence of Buddhism and Jainism, among other things.

Telugu-Kannada

Linguists refer to the progenitor of Kannada and Telugu scrips as "Telugu-Kannada script". There are many authentic references available. One or two references are available which mention "Old Kannada". Obviously both are synonymous. Since majority of the linguists (references) talk about "Telugu-Kannada script", it should be prominently highlighted while mentioning "old Kannada" also.Kumarrao 09:09, 8 July 2007 (UTC)

KumaraRao must be kicked out of Wiki who has no rationale in defending his bad statements...It's heights he comments without having knowledge of history, — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.230.243.231 (talk) 20:27, 7 January 2012 (UTC)

Transliterations

I've added IAST transliterations, and left the unicode symbol names, as they were already there. It seems to me that the unicode names (which can be seen at [2]) have no value here and could be removed. Imc (talk) 20:43, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

False citations from Kumarrao

I have read the pages 78-79 in the book "Dravidian languages" that this user has been quoting from. His assesment is incorrect. The Bhatiprollu script mentioned in the table is just a "point on the graph" with the origin of the Kannada-Telugu script in Mouryan Brahmi which Kumarrao has conviniently excluded. This is the reason for the revert. An admin has been intimated about this deveopment. Kumarrao is also using this false citation on the Telugu script article.Dineshkannambadi (talk) 16:20, 10 March 2008 (UTC)

Characters removed in new kannada alphabet chart

The 4 characters removed from new kannada script should also get a mention and the reason why it was removed. Can it be updated? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 125.22.97.64 (talk) 11:55, 22 October 2009 (UTC)

I'm not entirely sure what you're talking about, but the page can be updated, if we have sources. Do you have a link to any news item about this, say? Shreevatsa (talk) 12:27, 22 October 2009 (UTC)

As per references only one letter ೠ (U+0CE1) was removed. The reason being this letter was never used in Kannada scripts and added because of Sanskrit influence. Other letter (no Unicode available) was there to represent ನ್(U+0CA8 + U+0CCD) during 17-19th century, but was discounted. Letter ಱ (U+0CB1) and ೞ (U+0CDE) were not removed but not used in recent days. Use of ೞ was declined during 12th century and ಱ was used till 18th century. As these letters had pronunciation near to other letters (ಱ as ರ (U+0CB1) and ೞ as ಳ (U+0CB3)) these are replaced. But these letters has its significance as words differ in meaning at significant areas when replacement happens. Some examples: <ಅಱಿ = ತಿಳಿ (Learn), ಅರಿ = ಕತ್ತರಿಸು (Cut)> <ಕಱೆ = ಕಪ್ಪು (black), ಕರೆ = ದಡ(shore)> <ಪೊೞಿ = ನದಿ(river), ಪೊಳೆ = ಪ್ರಕಾಶಿಸು (bright)> <ಆೞ್ = ಮುಳುಗು(drown), ಆಳ್ = ಸೇವಕ(servant)> . I guess these are the 4 letters you were referring to. Hope this helps. For more info: http://www.baraha.com/kannada/nighantu1 ~ Teju2friends (talk) 06:47, 9 May 2011 (UTC)

The variant form of ರ್ in conjuncts like ರ್ನ (an extant form) and the variant form of ನ್ (an extinct form) cannot be considered on the same footing as the letters ಱ, ೞ, etc. The latter were distinct letters in the script, represented distinct sounds, and were subsequently dropped from the script as the sounds they represented were replaced by ರ and ಳ. On the other hand, the variant forms of ರ್ and ನ್ were just that: variant forms of letters that could as well be written in other ways, and did no correspond to distinct sounds of their own. Considering that the older forms of the Kannada script were similar to the modern Telugu script (especially in the diacritics), one can easily see how the extant variant ರ್ of Kannada must have evolved from something like ర్, and the extinct ನ್ variant from something like న్. While the ನ್-variant has been dropped from the Kannada script in favour of the regular modern form, this does not represent the dropping of a letter in the same way as in the case of ಱ and ೞ.138.75.227.145 (talk) 12:21, 1 May 2020 (UTC)

Mentioning the look of disapproval

I believe it's a noteworthy enough feature of the script that ಠ_ಠ has become an emoticon as standard as the smiley face. Does this article have a good place to note this? I'm not sure. --109.67.34.44 (talk) 00:29, 6 February 2011 (UTC)

I think it should be mentioned IN the actual article, not just linked to it. --RThompson82 (talk) 23:43, 26 May 2012 (UTC)

I went ahead and did that.~DG (talk) 19:57, 24 April 2013 (UTC)

another emoticon

what about the look of herobrine's disapproval? ರ_ರ — Preceding unsigned comment added by Sylveon (talk • contribs) 20:22, 28 July 2013 (UTC)

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ಅಂ Pronunciation

ಅಂ(aṁ) can be pronounced as ಅಙ್(aṅ), ಅಞ್(añ), ಅಣ್(aṇ), ಅನ್(an), ಅಮ್(am). For example in ಅಂಕ, ಂ is pronounced as ಙ್. In ಅಂಚೆ, ಂ is pronounced as ಞ್. In ಏಂಟು, ಂ is pronounced as ಣ್. In case of ಸಂತೆ, ಂ is pronounced as ನ್. In ಅಂಬಿಕಾ, ಂ is pronounced as ಮ್. So I think we should add these in the article. Ab abhi (talk) 05:56, 17 October 2016 (UTC)

More charts or bigger chart

Someone created a page (Kannada alphabet equivalent) with several tables comparing Kannada letters with Devanagari and Latin letters, and as far as I can tell, the tables are more comprehensive than the ones here. However, I'm not to be trusted on this issue (I know nothing of Devanagari, and I had no idea until right now that Kannada had a separate script), so instead of merging the content or trashing it under speedy criterion A11, I've moved it to Talk:Kannada alphabet/additional charts. Please merge the content or request speedy deletion as appropriate; if you pick the latter, just say something like {{db-g6|Moved here to save it from A11 in case it was a merge candidate, but it's not useful merge material}}, or you can just ask me and I'll delete it. Nyttend (talk) 04:47, 16 April 2017 (UTC)

"Canarese script" listed at Redirects for discussion

A discussion is taking place to address the redirect Canarese script. The discussion will occur at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2020 May 10#Canarese script until a consensus is reached, and readers of this page are welcome to contribute to the discussion. 🌸 1.Ayana 🌸 (talk) 12:36, 10 May 2020 (UTC)