Talk:Ikurriña

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Untitled[edit]

Someone please add an image of the flag. Kent Wang 20:15, 12 Mar 2004 (UTC)

From eo:Ikurrina http://eo.wikipedia.org/upload/c/c5/Es-pv.gif -- Error 04:18, 15 Mar 2004 (UTC)

Inspiration?[edit]

I've added a line about the Ikurriña's resemblance to the Union flag, after reading the following items:

"...the red, green and white ikurriña, modelled on the Union Jack (like many basques, he admired the feisty island nation as a role model" - Cadogan guide to Bilbao & the Basque Lands (1st ed.), p39

"Even Arana's Ikurriña was modeled on the union jack." - Mark Kurlansky, 'The Basque History of the World', p169

If anyone knows that this is definitely wrong, please feel free to correct me! --RobC 19:54, 1 Jan 2005 (UTC)

There is a rumour (sorry, but I can not quote a source): Sabino´s father owned a shipping company, so Sabino thought that a flag resembling a Union Jack would be and excellent protection against piracy for the basque ships. In sea conditions, it is very difficult to distinguish a Union Jack from a Ikurrina.

From memory, Sabino's father was ruined before the development of the ikurriña. --Error 01:13, 21 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I read somewhere that, despite being a germanophile himself, Sabino Arana sought inspiration in the Union Jack, given the long time relationship between the Basque Country and the Islands and in an attempt to get close to what was seen as a historical arch-enemy of Spain and, thus, a potential ally for Basque nationalism.

This sounds quite likely, but even if it wasn't, it is obvious that the Union Jack design was known to Arana.

I am thus adding the Union Jack reference. Mountolive 07:47, 12 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Sabino was not a germanophile.On the opposite, he was a staunch anglophile, as all the first Basque Nationalists at large. Perhaps you're referring to his brother Luis, although it's not clear to what extent he was germanophile.On the other hand, the Union Jack was not the British naval or merchant ensign in 1894, just the naval jack. The ikurriña doesn't look neither like the white ensign (naval) nor like the red coaster (merchant).The 1894 ikurriña was basically red. The white cross and the green saltire were rather thin to say the least.

Baserri profile[edit]

Although this may seem artificial, the colors work because they reflect the common image of a white-washed, red-trimmed Basque house near a lush green mountain.

This seems dubious without a citation. All I have to connect a baserri with the Ikurrina is that the Basque pavilion in Expo 92 Seville was said to be inspired by a a baserri profile in those three colors. --Error 01:13, 21 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

SAINT-PIERRE and MIQUELON flag?[edit]

Anyone else notice that the St Pierre and Miquelon flag have the Basque flag in the corner? think it's worth mentioning? The flag:You are mistaken. It's the official one or nearly so, really. The Breton and Norman flags are also part of the local flag. It's just an homage to the islanders' ancestors. The actual official flag, anyway, is the French one.

The unofficial flag of SPM, mind you. —Nightst a llion (?) 20:48, 10 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

France[edit]

(it kept being used in the Basque provinces under French sovereignty).

What was the attitude of the German occupiers? --Error 23:25, 18 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

A French battalion colour (1698-1741)[edit]

A Walloon regiment in French service carried in 1698-1741 a colour that was basically an ikurriña "avant la lettre". It was known, among some other titles, as the De la Vallière's Regiment or D'Escars' Regiment. It's a funny coincidence. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.142.175.22 (talk) 12:40, 11 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

"http://www.drapeaux.org/France/Ancien_Regime/N_Des_Cars.htm" —Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.142.175.22 (talk) 10:46, 28 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Borgoña cross...[edit]

The proper wikipedia term for this kind of saltire is CROSS OF BURGUNDY. The Arana Brothers were acquainted with the Burgundian saltires that appeared on what they took for ancient local Biscayan merchant flags, for instance that of the sailing vessels of the Consulate of Bilbao. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.142.175.22 (talk) 10:53, 5 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Ops, I made a mistake. For reasons unknown to me , the English Wikipedia article is called "Cross of Burgundy Flag" instead of just "Cross of Burgundy" , like in the Dutch Wikipedia ("Bourgondisch Kruis"), the Spanish one ("Cruz de Borgoña"), &c. Anyway, like all the late 19th-century people from Bilbao, the Arana brothers were acquainted with the idealized flag of the Consulate of Bilbao (See the discussion page of the article "Cross of Burgundy Flag", at leats the paragraphs on the "Consulate of Bilbao" and -perhaps too- the "Basque Nationalist 'Mendigoxale' Flag"). —Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.142.175.22 (talk) 12:45, 4 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Italian migrants...[edit]

The reference to the Italian flag and the Italian migrants seems a bit out of place. Why not the Mexican flag, the Hungarian one or the Austro-Hungarian merchant ensign? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.142.175.22 (talk) 09:08, 6 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Citation needed added.

--Error (talk) 22:35, 14 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

My English is rather broken too , but this article's current syntax and vocabulary need some polishing up.

Swastika[edit]

I removed:

Another controversial point is their use of the swastika before 1930. Nowadays only a few of members of the smaller parties use the other similar symbol, the lauburu.

I don't see a relation between ikurrina and swastika. If you mean another thing, rephrase.

The lauburu may not be used politically but is popular as a decoration. --Error (talk) 22:35, 14 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

There was a Basque Nationalist badge -a pin- that merged the swastika and the ikurriña (the ikurriña's white cross evolved into a white swastika, so to speak), but it was discarded in the mid-1930s or early in the Spanish civil war (1936-39), for obvious reasons. Anyway, it should be noted that in Basque Nationalist iconography the swastika was a straight-armed lauburu. On the other hand, in the early 1930s many people said ikurriña when referring to the lauburu, and perhaps vice versa. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.8.98.118 (talk) 12:22, 10 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Basque Nationalists, or at least the Basque Youth from Bilbao, began using a tiny pin in the shape of a silver swastika in December 1914. Hitler was 25 years old. The German National Socialist Labour Party didn't exist. Their swastika was based on an article published by Sabino Arana in c.1900, something about "solar cults of the ancient Basques". Arana, in turn, was based on some archaelogical Roman military findings from Great Britain: votive steles belonging to the Cohors I Fida Vardullorum Civium Romanorum Equitata (the Vardullians were the tribesmen who more or less inhabitated current Guipuzcoa), a Roman auxiliary infantry & cavalry unit garrisoning Britannia. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.8.98.118 (talk) 11:05, 28 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]

A picture of a Roman Vardullian stele from the UK :"http://lasombradeltejo.blogspot.com/2009/07/el-cantabrum-aproximacion-al-estudio_01.html"

Colors meaning[edit]

Red is the color of Biscay, green is the color of Guernica's Oak and white is the color of catholicism. The St. andrew's cross represents the legendary battle between basques and iberian people fought in St. andrew's day in 867. http://www.rbvex.it/catalognapb.html#paba the site is in italian, sorry for my english —Preceding unsigned comment added by 93.37.60.93 (talk) 10:58, 25 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

You are making a little mistake, that battle, -or at least that foundation legend- was between the Leonese -see perhaps Kingdom of León, or at least Kingdom of Asturias- under a certain Ordoño, who allegedly lost his life, and the Biscaynes under a mythical -and rather dubious- Jaun Zuria (White Lord in Basque), son of a prince from Scotland and a native girl. According to the -rather dubious- legend, he has been deprived of his legitimate rights to the the throne of Scotland by his envious relatives, so that Jaun Zuria took up shelter in Biscay, leading the Biscaynes into revolt against the "foreign invaders", and defeating them the at the "battle" of Arrigorriaga (Red Stones in Basque). There no historical evidence to support this legend (some author pointed out that Jaun Zuria might have been a Viking from Ireland -the land of the genuine Scotts- or Wales). Juan Zuria is on paper the 1st Lord-Master of Biscay, a mythical personage like King Arthur in England -perhaps based on some Roman-Briton military commander from the time of the Saxon encroachment- and like counts Rasura and Laínez in Castile. Sabino Arana late in the 19th century placed arbitrariously the battle of Arrigorriaga on Saint Andrew's Day (30 November). This way he could explain why there was a green saltire on the ikurriña, designed in 1894, and based on the Union Jack and on the coat of arms of Biscay. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.8.98.118 (talk) 11:25, 28 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]

According to this version, Jaun Zuria was son to a Scottish princess instead of a prince:"http://www.euskomedia.org/aunamendi/63734" —Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.8.98.118 (talk) 11:30, 28 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Eiii!! Ikurrina se escribe sin <<ñ>>. Es como hablar del Athletick de Bilbao refiriendose como si de AthletiCO de Bilbao se tratase. Hay una gran diferencia dado que athletico es de madrid y Athletick de Bilbao. Incluso se podria decir que es... bueno se podria no, lo digo con rotunda seguridad de quien no necesita probar un echo axiomatico: Es unico en el mundo dado que en él solo juegan Vascos. Lo cual es de lo mas noble dado que hoy en dia los equipos parecen mas una empresa de millonetis que un juego de caballeros. Pero volviendo a lo de la bandera. Es muy importante el echo de escribir bien IKURRINA sin la caracteristica española "ñ" dado que en euskera no existe dicha letra. Es como si se fuera a escribir en ingles y se utilizara la "ñ". Vamos una absoluta incoherencia. Incluso para mi que soy vasco (creo... ya que no encuentro mi patria) puede hasta resultar ofensivo. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2003:62:4F45:1501:9CBA:ACF4:C704:2D3A (talk) 22:38, 29 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]