Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Richard Wagner/archive1

Richard Wagner

I stumbled across this and found it an enjoyable read. It both covers his life and his work, provides pictures, includes a sound sample, sources and a balanced lead section. I believe it fulfils all of the FA criteria and would be an excellent addition to our current Featured Articles. Any criticisms will likely be minor, so please try to be constructive and provide full reasoning for any objections—I will try to amend them in time. Afterall, we do not have enough FA on the subject of classical music at the moment. --Oldak Quill 10:18, 24 Mar 2005 (UTC)

• Object, I'm afraid. Although I agree that there should be more FAs on classical music, I don't think this article is good enough yet (please feel free to move any of this to the article's Talk page):
  • The 'Operas' section needs to flow more smoothly (currently it feels too much like separate short statements), and is very short, and does somewhat mix all his operas together.
  • 'Other works' really should be 'Writings', the theatrical innovations could feasibly be either incorporated with his views on Gesamtkunstwerk, or the opera section. His writings really need to be discussed more thoroughly.
  • 'Exile' etc.: 'One of Schopenhauer's doctrines was that music held a supreme role amongst the arts, since it was the only one unconcerned with the material world. Wagner quickly embraced this claim, which must have resonated strongly despite its direct contradiction with his own arguments, in "Opera and Drama", that music in opera had to be subservient to the cause of drama.' I really think Dahlhaus' (Wagner's Music Dramas) argument regarding the misunderstanding drama=text should be mentioned here – Dahlhaus argues that the music became the main carrier for drama, and, as such, Wagner's embracing of Schopenhauer is not a contradiction. It could perhaps also be useful to mention that Schopenhauer’s view of music is in practically direct opposition to Kant's. Mention of Hanslick could perhaps also be useful, as his aesthetics, even though they also raise music to the highest level, are often discussed in terms of the Hanslick-Wagner debates. 'Nevertheless, the affair inspired Wagner to put aside his work on the Ring cycle (which would not be resumed for the next twelve years) and begin work on Tristan und Isolde, based on the Arthurian love story of the knight Tristan and the (already-married) lady Isolde.' – It could be useful to modify this cause and effect statement, based on arguments that the cause and effect of Tristan and the Wesendonck love story is the direct opposite of this idea (Magee, I think).
  • 'Final years' As some others have mentioned on the Talk pages, I’d reall like to see an authoritative reference for his 'last words'.
  • 'Anti-Semitism and Nazi appropriation': It’s a touchy subject, but I really think clear distinction should be made between Wagner's views and writings (which are hardly pretty, but...) set in their proper historical and cultural context on the one hand, and the 'Bayreuth Circle' (which Wagner is on record as not being terribly fond of) and Cosima, Siegfried, and the Nazis on the other. Nike Wagner (The Wagners, 2001) notes that 'the "Bayreuth circle," active in Wagner's lifetime as propagandists of his work, developed an ideology of cultish, nationalistic philistinism after the composer's death' (my emphasis). And British (and) left-wing Wagnerism should also be mentioned, cf. Shaw: '...[Wagner's] picture of Niblunghome under the reign of Alberic is a poetic vision of unregulated industrial capitalism as it was made known in Germany in the middle of the nineteenth century by Engel’s Condition of the Laboring Classes in England.' (The Perfect Wagnerite, 2nd ed. 1901).
  • A minor quibble: why are there two sections ('Media' and 'Sound sample') with one link to an .ogg file each? Tobyox 14:46, Mar 24, 2005 (UTC)
• Object. I think it is pretty clear the Works section requires a more thorough discussion and copy-editing/rewriting. Phils 15:18, 24 Mar 2005 (UTC)