Talk:Fort Myers, Florida

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Minnesota Twins[edit]

Hammond Stadium, and the Twins spring training, are not in the city of Ft. Myers. They are in unincorporate Lee County and Hammond Stadium is a county facility. It is covered in the Lee County article. It may seem confusing since it has a Ft. Myers address, but so does half the county. Since this article is about the city, with Lee County having a seperate article, I propose removing part about the Twins and Hammond. Niteshift36 (talk) 01:01, 5 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Not entirely against a move, but something needs to stay in the FM article if only for a reference to the history of "cross town" games against the Red Sox (based at City of Palms Park inside the city limits). VulpineLady (talk) 23:37, 14 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • With no other input, it was removed. A line was added to the Red Sox portion indicating a cross town rivalry. Niteshift36 (talk) 03:38, 2 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

tweaked it slightly for clarity. Would like to see links to both Lee County page and the Hammond Stadium section @ Lee Co. would do it myslef but short on time (didn't even log in :P) User:VulpineLady —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.4.91.87 (talk) 16:18, 18 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Are you serious? Hammond Stadium **is** considered Fort Myers. This article isn't called "City of Fort Myers" now is it? Semantics aside, keep the line in there for easiness. I like how you said you discussed this when you're talking to yourself. Also, when the Boston Red Sox move to their new JetBlue stadium it's still considered Fort Myers. Don't be so nitpicky on info that doesn't need to be. If you want to be specific to the actual city limits of the city, you would have to prune a lot more information from this article. ♫ Douglasr007 (talk) 07:52, 21 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Oh man, it is hilarious to read this seven years later. – The Grid (talk) 12:27, 22 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
One of the hazards of hanging around Wikipedia for years. :) - Donald Albury 19:44, 22 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • 7 years later, both teams are still outside of the city. Niteshift36 (talk) 13:43, 23 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
It's ok, Fort Myers forgot about it long before. Lee County wasn't aware either. – The Grid (talk) 13:51, 23 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
A terrible joke, mostly. – The Grid (talk) 18:37, 23 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Climate[edit]

While I can find web sites that classify places along the southwest Florida coast, including Fort Myers, as having a "tropical savannah climate", the WP article Florida climate has a map placing the area in the "humid subtropical" zone. Whichever climate classification is used, it needs to have a citation to a reliable source. - Donald Albury 14:02, 25 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

1927 Lynching[edit]

@Silmedia:, I have been reverting your edit to the article as the detailed information about the 1927 Lynching does not fit in this article - city articles are to provide an overview on the history. I want to make it clear that the event is very interesting to present, it's definitely not something to hide, and I do wonder if there's sufficient material to warrant it as an article on its own. The problem in its current form is the news format - Wikipedia considers the enduring notability of persons and events. While news coverage can be useful source material for encyclopedic topics, most newsworthy events do not qualify for inclusion. I would like to see if there was other related stories as it would help provide a viewpoint of the socioeconomic history of Fort Myers (for instance, presenting the redlining). You provided a valid piece of information, I would like to see your thoughts on this. (bold, revert, discuss). – The Grid (talk) 13:27, 25 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

  • Agreed that it doesn't belong in this article. I would not support spinning it off into its own article. It was a one off event that I don't see meeting the notability requirements. Niteshift36 (talk) 14:27, 25 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • There are a number of articles about lynchings linked from List of lynching victims in the United States, some of which are better examples than others on how such an article should be written. In an example of how to cover lynchings in a city's history, History of Gainesville, Florida#After the Civil War, covers four lynchings in just a couple of sentences. Three of the lynchings are linked to another article that provides more detail. If there is substantive coverage from reliable sources, a stand-alone article is viable. Individual lynchings should normally only be covered briefly in articles or sections about the history of places. - Donald Albury 14:39, 25 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Regardless of the account's suspension, it's still something to research and see if I can research anything related. – The Grid (talk) 19:14, 26 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Hey Niteshift36 and Donald Albury, you think it's possible this could be incorporated into the article (pending removing possible copyvio)? A lot has happened since this editor's attempt for inclusion. – The Grid (talk) 18:04, 27 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Something fairly short would be reasonable. BTW, aside from several newspaper articles about the lynching that show up in Google, there is a short discussion of the lynching in The Rise of Jim Crow in Fort Myers: 1885-1930 (pp 63–66). - Donald Albury 19:13, 27 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]
I would suggest something like:

The only recorded lynching in Fort Myers occurred in 1924, when two African-American boys, aged 14 and 16, were accused of assaulting two school girls, although no further information about the assault was reported at the time. R. J. Johnson was taken into custody by the sheriff, and then seized by a mob. Milton Williams was found by a mob the next day. Both boys were shot multiple times. Their bodies were then dragged through the streets to Safety Hill, the city's African-American neighborhood, and then hanged. A coroner's jury, convened on the day the boys were killed, found that they had died at the "hands of parties unknown".

The above is based on the article I linked. - Donald Albury 21:42, 27 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • I honestly don't think the significance is there. These weren't government sanctioned hangings, instead a criminal act by private parties. What makes this crime any more significant or notable than any other double murder? I feel like we're trying to manufacture notability so that the topic can be worked into the article. Niteshift36 (talk) 13:35, 28 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Not really trying to make it fit but seeing where it could fit. Just noticing with currently expanding some history sections on cities that it could fit somewhere that doesn't seem like a separate piece. – The Grid (talk) 14:10, 5 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • What makes this crime more significant than other double murders is that the murders were commited by or in the presence of a crowd, that the bodies were then dragged through the streets to the city's African-American neighborhood, and then left hanging. While the lynchings were not government sanctioned before the act, the coroner's jury that was assembled the day of the second murder returned a verdict that the victims had died at the hands of unknown persons, effectively foreclosing any legal action against the perpetrators. - Donald Albury 18:06, 5 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • I agree that we try to make lynchings more significant than murders, but ultimately, they're murders. It is incorrect to say the coroner's jury decision would have precluded legal actions against anyone who was later identified. It did give an excuse to not investigate further if law enforcement desired, but it didn't preclude charges. Niteshift36 (talk) 18:50, 5 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Climate, again[edit]

The proper climate designation for Fort Myers has been discussed before (see above). I am uncomfortable assigning a a Koppen-Geiger code based on looking at a large-scale map. I found the following classifications for Fort Myers in a Google search:

I am not sure which of the above qualify as reliable sources. I did find the information below in a book published by an academic press, which should make it acceptable as a reliable source.

"Trewatha (1943) originally placed the northernmost boundary [of Koppen zone Aw] along the 27th latitute, a line from Ft. Myers to Melbourne...", thus placing Ft. Myers right on the boundary between Aw and Cfa.[1]

References

  1. ^ Randolph J. Widmer; Randolph A. Widmer (1988). The Evolution of Calusa: A Nonagricultural Chiefdom of the Southwest Florida Coast. University of Alabama Press. p. 99. ISBN 978-0-8173-0358-7.

— Preceding unsigned comment added by Donald Albury (talk • contribs) 11:32, 11 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I'm a bit perplexed on the editing done by these IPs for specifically the climate. I only see it on the Southwest Florida articles. – The Grid (talk) 20:03, 12 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Let me expand your horizons. :-) I was just dealing with this earlier today, someone changing climate zones in ten articles before being blocked for block evasion. I am not sure what the attraction is. - Donald Albury 23:04, 12 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Very, very interesting. – The Grid (talk) 18:04, 13 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

obviously needs update post-Ian[edit]

The mayor declared the city "uninhabitable." As cleanup will take years, the lede should be adjusted to reflect this tragedy. I don't know what to suggest about the population - until FEMA begins temporary housing, etc., but I don't think 80,000 people are still wandering around in the rubble ... 50.111.55.190 (talk) 18:00, 6 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

If you have reliable sources in mind, you can edit the article, citing those sources, or, you can list those sources here, so that other editors can use them. Keep in mind, however, WP:NOTNEWS. Donald Albury 18:14, 6 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]
To echo the same message, city/town articles are about the overall information. The lede is a summary of the article. Also, are you even suggesting that everyone within the city is in rubbles? Interesting for an IP from outside Florida to speak for the locals. – The Grid (talk) 18:23, 6 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]
@Donald Albury @The Grid The IP user might have the same confusion about Fort Myers city vs Fort Myers beach (town) Venkat TL (talk) 18:41, 6 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Yeah, I see that, now. It has been more than 60 years since I spent any time in Fort Myers Beach, but I suspect almost all the pictures we have seen in the news are of FMB. Donald Albury 19:21, 6 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]
I have been seeing both Fort Myers Beach with Estero Blvd and downtown Fort Myers with the historic area mentioned in the hours and days after landfall. Definitely more Fort Myers Beach as places were wiped out. Neither place a good turnout. – The Grid (talk) 23:15, 6 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]
@Donald Albury yes, all the pic and footage are from FMB. Venkat TL (talk) 09:11, 7 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Lede and Hurricane Ian[edit]

This discussion was originally between me and Niteshift36 on my talk page:

Just for the sake of discussion, I'm not convinced that leaving references to Ian out of the lead is correct. I normally oppose WP:recentism, but that doesn't mean all recent events should be excluded. Ian was far more destructive than Charley, Irma, Donna etc. Given the scale of both damage and the length of time recovery will take, I find it tough to argue that it isn't one of the most notable events in the history of the city and think it probably merits a mention in the lead. Niteshift36 (talk) 16:14, 25 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I see what you mean but maybe first a section could be made about tropical cyclones that have affected the city? Donna, Charley, Irma, and Ian would be sufficient material. There's also a few storms in the 19th century. I think once we have a foundation in the article, we can then add it to the lede. – The Grid (talk) 18:24, 25 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keeping in mind that the article is about the city, Charley, Donna and Irma had minimal effects on the city of Fort Myers. Ian, on the other hand, was very impactful on the city. The storm surge that Ian produced was unprecedented in the Fort Myers area. I don't see how refusing to mention it until there is a section about it is really making the encyclopedia more informative. It feels more to me like being slaved to the MOS and WP:LEAD guidelines. Niteshift36 (talk) 21:39, 25 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    I am trying to think if there's any city articles that have used a meteorological event in their lede. I don't even think New Orleans did after Katrina. It's really more about consistency. You want to continue this on the talk page for more opinions? – The Grid (talk) 01:01, 26 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Looking for more thoughts and opinions about the lede. – The Grid (talk) 15:39, 26 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I will note that the 1900 Galveston hurricane, which killed over 6,000 people, appears in the third paragraph of the Galveston, Texas article. On the other hand, the 1926 Miami hurricane, which is often credited with ending the Florida land boom, does not appear in the Miami article until well into the History section. I do think it is still too early to determine how defining Ian will be for the history of Fort Myers. Donald Albury 18:22, 26 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]


Split off history to its own article?[edit]

Is the history section long enough to justify splitting off with its own article? Amscheip (talk) 03:46, 10 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

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