Talk:King Country

Waikato swamp

The article refers to Waikato valley being fertile but this is incorrect for the time period in question.The Waikato was (and still is to some extent) a region of swamps.It was only with extensive drainage by settlers that the land could be farmed at all.The best example is at Morrinsville where the Morrin brothers -one of whom was an engineer, bought swamp land from Tamihana the rebel king maker and hired Irish navvies from the gold fields to dig enormous drains.Even then the land was not very productive until mass application of fertilizer and this didnt take place till after WW2!In the 1850s the Maori had been taught by a small group of missionaries how to grow wheat etc (Cambridge and Kihikihi area) but the actual area was not great.The soldiers who were given land for free in Hamilton in 1864 took one look at it and left in many cases as it was swamp.Claudia Jan 2011 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 125.237.37.160 (talk) 08:33, 26 January 2011 (UTC)

Tawhaio's actions

Tawhaio was THE major figure in the king country during a 20year period in the King Country. The history of the King Country at that time revolves around him and his organiation. The many refs provided show quite clearly the events of the time. There are at least 5 sources that all say the same thing-some are contemporary newspapers that used London Newspapers accounts. You are being obstructive in trying to restrict important information."Dubious" is nonsense-all this actually happened. Are you suggesting that all 6 authors from different parts of the world and 80 years apart all got together to make up a story?? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 122.62.226.243 (talk) 21:54, 14 October 2013 (UTC)

You added this material after I challenged similar material at Talk:Māori King Movement#Maori bank. I explained there that you have drawn your material from a paper by historian Stuart Park, who actually dismisses these stories as being of "dubious reliability". Yet you ignore his warning! You have failed to provide sufficient justification at that article's talk page for keeping the material. There is even less reason to keep it here, where it is irrelevant; you have added additional editorial judgments "visiting Queen Victoria, even though he had no invitation ... taking train rides and getting a big fright at Madame Tussauds when he came face to face with what he thought were fully armed Zulus." Your agenda of ridicule and denigration is fairly plain and you are quite clearly returning to the obstructive, willful behaviour that has resulted in you being blocked in the past. Your citation of sources is completely inadequate. You are still choosing not to sign your posts and still choosing not to make the slightest attempt to format your responses on these pages to follow talk page etiquette. BlackCab (talk) 23:13, 14 October 2013 (UTC)

I have further discussed the weaknesses of the sources you cited at Talk:Māori King Movement#Maori bank. They actually amount to nothing. BlackCab (talk) 05:23, 15 October 2013 (UTC)

Assimilation and railway jobs in the KC

The key person behind assimilation was George Grey.This was a corner stone of his approach to Maori in NZ.WG Mair was the person who did most of the initial liaison with KC Maori. The practice of getting Maori into railway jobs in the KC appears to be the work of MP John Sheehan. Sheehan spoke fluent Maori and was active in the King Country during the period of standoff between The Kingtites and the Maniapoto iwi. He talked with the various leaders-initially with the idea of buying land. He was generally well regarded by Maori for his efforts on the East Coast to untangle the complex tangles of deals and misunderstandings between McLean, the government land purchaser (who was also a major land owner / farmer in the region)and local Maori. From this beginning Maniapoto asserted their mana (control) over the KC and agreed to sell land for the railway.MP John Bryce was the minister who did some negoiating with Maori about their expectations. THey were most concerned about wages being spent on alcohol as had happened in Taupo(outside of the KC) and what they considered the high prices charged by companies for food. The government agreed to employ local Maori for the difficult job of cutting through the thick bush to enable it to be surveyed -a laborious job in itself in those days. After the survey the govt bought about 1/3 of the large Aotea block(where the railway went).The Aotea block was about 70% of the entire King Country. Land was sold by Maniapoto via the Native ( later Maori) land court bases at Otorohanga. This gave land titles to individuals who could sell land if they wished. Iwi and hapu had the option of keeping the land in shared native title but many elected to sell. Iwi and hapu already had a track record of selling land. Prior to the land wars Maori in the Maniapoto Awakino area(just north of the Mokau river) had been keen land sellers with at least 10 blocks of various sizes being sold for sums of between 200 and 600 pounds . This was arranged by Donald Mclean.The last purchases were made in 1857. The area was not surveyed or settled until the 1880s. As late as Sept 1883 Kingite Maori were still creating trouble by such actions as removing marker beacons in the Kawhia Harbour .The land had already been purchased from local Maori but King Tawhaio ordered the beacons removed. 112 Troopers were moved to the area and the king promptly left. THe king had misunderstood their purpose, When he was told they were for safety he was satisfied Maniapoto agreed to pay 1600 pounds to have their land surveyed by the govt even though a private contractor had quoted 20,000 pounds.115.188.178.77 (talk) 21:51, 18 January 2016 (UTC)

The "white bell topper"

Just took out a section including this. Not at all clear to me what relevance it has - and it's not referenced. Seems to be based on the book "King Potatau: An Account of the Life of Potatau te Wherowhero the First". Snori (talk) 01:57, 2 August 2016 (UTC)

The significance of the hat and the event is that it marked a period when the King and Ngati Maniapoto were engaged in a fierce struggle for the mana whenua of the rohe. The king's Waikato people were guests of Maniapoto after their defeat in 1864 but King Tawhaio was trying to assert his mana(control- in this case) over Maniapoto. Manipoto were afraid Tawhaio would do some deal with the govt over what they considered their land. The king flung his hat down on a map to indicate the area he believed was under his mana. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 115.188.195.19 (talk) 10:59, 6 January 2017 (UTC)