Talk:Flight 714 to Sydney

Recent addition

Regarding the most recent addition, it's very interesting, but... I'm not sure I agree with the assertion that Flight 714 is a "very big departure from the safe world of comics." In Cigars of the Pharoah we had kidnapping, drug running, gun running, assassination through insanity, etc. so Tintin has seen a lot of violence. (Carreidas's interrogation is more of a comedy moment, as he and Rastapopulous are reduced to the level of children.) The associated statement that this is in the manga tradition is also something I don't quite agree with.

And does it ever say that the little guy is a Russian physicist? - mako 20:10, 13 May 2005 (UTC)

Also, given that this comic was released in 1968 and presumuably started a while before that, one most wonder whether Herge had even been exposed to magna. The increasing exposure of magna and other Japanese comic and cartoon forms to the West only appears to me to have started in the 80s or perhaps the late 70s. Therefore I suspect Herge was probably not that well aware of magna. Also, there was also slavery in one of the books and various murders and attempted murders in many of the books so I would have to say the person who wrote this now removed comment appears to know very little about the Tintin books and appears to have little thought or understanding of their addition Nil Einne 03:52, 14 April 2006 (UTC)

Although in retrospect as a comic artist he probably had more exposure to such things then the average person. I'm still not convinced of any magna connection though Nil Einne (talk) 20:29, 19 July 2011 (UTC)

Original research and POV

I removed the following, which read like the theories and opinions of one fan. If I'm wrong, please return them with citations.

In addition Laszlo Carreidas, a business and aircraft tycoon who refuses to shake hands ("it is extremely unhygienic," he says) brings to mind Howard Hughes.

In this album, Hergé chose to ridicule some of his own characters (notably Allan and Rastapopoulos). This was the beginning of a process he would continue in the next and final complete book, Tintin and the Picaros. Many fans were disappointed by this and considered Hergé was damaging his own legacy.

The Singing Badger 03:53, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

The second paragraph there summarises a view I've read in other places as well, e.g. Michael Farr's book on Tintin. I don't know if that counts as a good enough "source" for Wikipedia purposes though. 84.70.174.155 21:41, 18 August 2006 (UTC)

Ironically our Ideology of Tintin claims he's based on Marcel Dassault although this is unsourced. Nil Einne (talk) 20:27, 19 July 2011 (UTC)

The claim in the opening paragraph that the book is “unusual in the Tintin series for its science fiction and paranormal influences” is POV, and also fundamentally incorrect: the books are full of paranormal activity, including remote hypnosis (by the fakir in “Cigars”, who can entrance people by gesturing at them, rather than “conventional” means), levitation (the monk who floats in “Tibet”), dowsing (Calculus with his pendulum), premonition and mind-reading (Madame Yamillah, in “Crystal Balls”), “voodoo”-style incapacitating of people remotely (the Inca using dolls make the unconcious explorers writhe in “Crystal Balls”/ “Prisoners”), and Tintin’s mystical connection with Tchang, which awakens him from sleep as Tchang’s ’plane crashes in “Tibet”. As for science fiction, even if one rules out making a trumpet to speak to elephants in their own language, the presence of a book about a search for a “shooting star” that posses the power to make apples and spiders grow to immense size, a two-volume trip to the Moon in an atomic rocket-ship, and an album devoted to the struggle to gain the secrets of a secret weapon able to destroy cities by projecting an ultra-sonic “ray” (although the look of the device is based on an experimental Nazi weapon, that was not ultrasonic, and not designed as a building leveller), suggests that science-fiction was a common element in the books. It may be that 714 is the only book in the series which suggests that there is extra terrestrial life, but that is about as far as the claim should go, and possibly isn’t even notable, given that it’s just a plot-point (or rather is no more notable in as far as it is something which pertains only to this story in the way the Yeti only pertains to “Tibet”, and doesn’t overturn any established themes from another book). Jock123 (talk) 14:28, 21 January 2018 (UTC)

Flight 714 to Sydney?

I was in Standfords (the travel bookshop) the other day, when I noticed a stand full of Tintin comics. Glancing over it, I noticed with interest that this comic was labelled "Flight 714 to Sydney", "to Sydney" in sub-heading. Anyone care to elaborate whether this was a recent change or not (as I COULD'VE sworn it used to be "Flight 714" & the image on the wiki page confirms this.)

TIA! Mrdini

It's a change made by Egmont.

But why? Muzilon (talk) 03:33, 27 July 2014 (UTC)

Talk pages are for discussing ways to improve the article, not for general conversation about the article's subject. See WP:TALK#USE. Prhartcom (talk) 12:40, 27 July 2014 (UTC)

We are "discussing" the fact that the latest English translation has a slightly different title from earlier editions, and the article could probably be "improved" by mentioning this fact. Muzilon (talk) 04:09, 30 July 2014 (UTC)

This news article [1] contains such an image.--Auric talk 12:17, 30 July 2014 (UTC)

I believe the article's title should be changed to reflect the current publication's title. "Flight 714" should redirect to "Flight 714 to Sydney".Hellboybookeeper (talk) 03:04, 12 December 2015 (UTC)

The title wasn’t changed by Egmont, or at least not by their say-so. The story, anecdotally, is that at the first “Tintin Festival” in Brussels, someone approached Nick Rodwell of Moulinsart and asked if there was any reason that the book *wasn’t* called “Flight 714 to Sydney” to mirror the French, and he said no, not that he knew of, and he would find out if it could be changed. It changed soon after. Jock123 (talk) 14:43, 21 January 2018 (UTC)

The long title is a bit of a misnomer as Tintin & Co never actually get to Sydney during the story. Maybe the English publishers wanted to avoid giving readers the misleading impression that the book is set in Australia? --Muzilon (talk) 23:00, 17 February 2019 (UTC)

Missing pages

Have the missing pages ever been reprinted, anywhere? 惑乱 分からん * \)/ (\ (< \) (2 /) /)/ * 22:37, 13 October 2007 (UTC)

Is there any other source than http://www.tintinmilou.free.fr for this info? I find it strange that there appears to be so little information on this online. 惑乱 Wakuran (talk) 18:32, 5 January 2009 (UTC)

[2] suggests there is some source although it would have to be checked. The info has been removed from the article anyway Nil Einne (talk) 20:32, 19 July 2011 (UTC)

Lesser Sunda Islands?

There are 'Sondonesian' freedom fighters on Pulau-pulau Bompa, but this fictionary island is in the Celebes Sea (see page 59) or -more likely- at the entrance to the Makassar Strait (see pages 59-60) coming from Sumbawa. The radio station on page 59 claims that Pulau-pulau Bompa is in the Celebes Sea. The TV broadcaster on page 60 says that Pulau is over 200 miles away from the jet's expected route -the kidnappers or hijackers took control of the plane when flying over Sumbawa- and the Australian flying boat on page 59 is in touch with Makassar on the radio when the crewmen spotted the dinghies after the volcanic eruption.

P.S.: The Proboscis Monkey on page 42 is endemic to Borneo.

P.S.: My English is harrowing, sorry.

Note Pulau-pulau Bompa would translate roughly to Bompa islands i.e. it implies a group of islands by the name Nil Einne (talk) 20:24, 19 July 2011 (UTC)

Yes, I also feel it is incorrect to state the fictitious volcanic island (Bompa) is located in the Lesser Sunda Islands. Sure, the original flight path was over the Lesser Sunda Islands, but following the hijacking over Sumbawa, the plane is then diverted - presumably "more than 200 miles off their scheduled route" (when/where the dinghy is found) - to an island "in the Celebes Sea". The Lesser Sunda Islands are not in the Celebes Sea. If there are no objections, I propose changing the location to "the Celebes Sea". SiberianCat (talk) 07:13, 4 August 2017 (UTC)

Changed to a location between the Celebes Sea and the Lesser Sunda Islands, as this is more accurate than claiming Bompa is part of the Lesser Sunda Islands. SiberianCat (talk) 02:52, 4 October 2017 (UTC)

Merger Proposal

I concur with the nominator. There is no need for a stand-alone article for a fictitious aircraft.--Petebutt (talk) 19:55, 19 March 2015 (UTC)

I am the nominator, and I proposed the merger after reviewing a GAN for Carreidas 160 and concluding that this fictional aircraft has not had a significant cultural impact nor received significant critical commentary, and therefore the content would be better located here in the Flight 714 article. Neelix (talk) 20:01, 19 March 2015 (UTC)

I will take care of this in due time. Note that until recently and for many years, this article had a large "Carreidas 160" section, filled with OR and no sources, which I deleted and wrote the sourced Carreidas 160 article. I am currently rewriting the Flight 714 article in my sandbox. When the Carreidas 160 article is merged in, it will not be possible to keep most of its information. Prhartcom (talk) 13:49, 21 March 2015 (UTC)

Thank you for offering to take this on, Prhartcom! The work you have done already is commendable. The parts that seem most important to me to keep in the merger are the contents of the "Creation" section and the first two sentences of the second paragraph of the "Fictional technology" section. I'd also be glad to see the 2014 news story tie-in that you mentioned included in this article. Neelix (talk) 14:37, 21 March 2015 (UTC)

Those are good suggestions, Neelix, I will adopt them. Prhartcom (talk) 14:42, 21 March 2015 (UTC)

• These seem like fine plans. Good luck. -Fnlayson (talk) 17:37, 21 March 2015 (UTC)

Article name

This is now sold in English as Flight 714 to Sydney. If there are no objections, I'll move the article to that after 72 hours. Timrollpickering 19:57, 6 February 2017 (UTC)

Krollspell location: New Delhi or Cairo?

The article (referring to the English translation of the book) states that Krollspell is taken to New Delhi under hypnotic-induced amnesia. While the French original book does indeed state New Delhi, the English translation puts Krollspell at Cairo, Egypt. So perhaps this line should be altered, noting Cairo (New Delhi, in the French edition)? SiberianCat (talk) 07:21, 4 August 2017 (UTC)

Changed to Cairo, but also mentioned New Delhi in French edition. Results in slightly ugly syntax of em dashes within parentheses, so perhaps sentence needs rewording into two sentences? SiberianCat (talk) 02:45, 4 October 2017 (UTC)

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GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:Flight 714 to Sydney/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Scrooge200 (talk · contribs) 06:40, 10 January 2020 (UTC)

Good Article review progress box Criteria: 1a. prose () 1b. MoS () 2a. ref layout () 2b. cites WP:RS () 2c. no WP:OR () 2d. no WP:CV () 3a. broadness () 3b. focus () 4. neutral () 5. stable () 6a. free or tagged images () 6b. pics relevant () Note: this represents where the article stands relative to the Good Article criteria. Criteria marked are unassessed

Review

• I think you should add a WP:SHORTDESC.
• Having not read the previous books, I was a little confused going into the plot section. Who are the characters and what are they like? What happened in the previous installment? Giving some background information on the series would be helpful.
• "Tintin and his friends join the millionaire on his prototype private jet[...]" WP:ELEVAR states that it's not good to use such terms as "the millionaire."
• "Tintin and Haddock bind and gag Rastapopoulos, Krollspell and also Carreidas who has gone mad being injected by the truth syrum, and escort them to lower ground, intending to use Rastapopoulos as a hostage; but the serum's effect wears off, and Rastapopoulos escapes." This sentence seems a little long. Could you split it into smaller parts? Also, it might be better to mention earlier that Carreidas was injected by the syrum.
• "a writer for the magazine Space Week" Is this a real or fictional magazine?
• "[...]in which all escape the eruption." This sounds a little odd.
• Hergé began writing Flight 714 to Sydney[...] Who is Hergé?
• "He initially planned on titling his new story Special Flight for Adelaide prior to changing it to Flight 714 to Sydney." Why would he consider calling it that? What's the meaning behind the original title?
• English-translator I don't think a dash is needed here.
• The name "Mik Ezdanitoff" was a pun on a Brussels dialect phrase for "Isn't that great". Could you list the original phrase so the pun is more clear?
• [...]Hergé also observed that "With Carreidas[...] This should be "[...]observed that "[w]ith Carreidas[...]"
• Hergé drew the basis of the comic but his assistants[...] I think "and" would work better than "but."
• then completed the backgrounds and detail and added colour I don't like the use of "and" twice in this part, it feels a little clunky.
• his Studios Hergé were responsible for[...] Should there be something after "Studios Hergé"?
• All of the first five paragraphs in this section start with "Hergé." This feels a little repetitive.
• [...]Casterman initially thought that his was too sombre[...] It's just my personal experience, but I've never seen the UK spelling of "somber." Maybe change this to a synonym to avoid confusion.
• Rather than translating its title directly, as Flight 714 to Sydney, they gave it the shortened title of Flight 714. Was the book re-published later as Flight 714 to Sydney, as that's what it's consistently called in the article?
• Jean-Marc Lofficier and Randy Lofficier thought that Flight 714 "totally demystifies" Rastapopolous[...] Hmm, you call it Flight 714 here.
• [...]arguing that it would have been really interesting[...] The "really" here doesn't sound formal. If it's a direct line from the review, put it in quotes.
• They thus thought[...] This is a strangely constructed opening. I feel like it should be "Thus, they thought..."
• [...]members of Studios Hergé it contained[...] Add a comma before "it."
• [...]believing that with it, Hergé was "top of his form." Should this be "at the top of his form"?
• the concept of "the void"[...] I'm confused by this.
• [...]having been actually directly taken[...] I don't like the "actually" here.
• [...]the comics series by Belgian cartoonist Hergé Change this to "a comic series."
• He thought that in doing so, Hergé was "trying to make his world more subtle by eliminating the certainties on which it had been built" and in doing so was "attacking the very foundations he had created." Could you source this?
• I know that book GAs have to have a "themes" section, but I'm not sure if this applies to comics. A theme section would help the article, though, as the lines about the "parallel with big business and crime" and "the void" do interest me. Overall, this article looks like it's in good shape.

Discussion

I haven't read the Tintin series, but this article looked interesting to review. This is my first GA review, and I hope I'm doing well! I started by reading the main text first and then the lead paragraph last. Scrooge200 (talk) 06:40, 10 January 2020 (UTC)

• Thanks for your comments so far, they're very thorough! I'll go over them and make changes for you to review. In addressing some of your concerns, articles on the other individual Tintin books, especially the later entries in the series, do seem to be written with the assumption that the reader has a basic, working knowledge of the series' lore and Hergé himself; aside from minor references to earlier exploits and the two-part adventures, the books tend to be standalone. This is the only book in the series whose article does not have a GA rating - as you may have seen, it doesn't have a particularly good reputation due to its self-sabotaging sense of humour and cop-out ending (it came off of the back of arguably the two finest entries in the canon), which may have led past editors not to bother with it. However, upon recent re-reading, I believed it had progressed to the standard and formula of the articles about surrounding entries in the series, and that it could be considered as such. PatTheMoron (talk) 09:48, 11 January 2020 (UTC)
  • Ah, then in that case, a theme analysis might not be needed. I do think you should give a short overview of the characters, either as you introduce them in the plot section or in an opening paragraph. Scrooge200 (talk) 21:49, 12 January 2020 (UTC)

As the main contributor to this particular article (and indeed, to all the Adventures of Tintin articles), I hope people don't mind if I stick my nose in here. I haven't had a chance to read through all the GAN comments as of yet, but if I do offer any thoughts, I hope that no one takes offense or surprise at my sudden appearance. Glad to see other folk taking an interest in this topic at Wikipedia. Midnightblueowl (talk) 22:56, 14 January 2020 (UTC)

• I've made many of the changes requested - the main thing I decided against was "the comics series by Belgian cartoonist Hergé" since most of the other volume articles use it. PatTheMoron (talk) 02:01, 17 January 2020 (UTC)
• Midnightblueowl, are you able to cite the pages relevant to the synopsis, as is the case for all of the other articles about the books? I'd do it myself, but I don't have access to this story right now. PatTheMoron (talk) 02:35, 17 January 2020 (UTC)

Article looks good! Once the pages are cited, I'll go promote it. Scrooge200 (talk) 04:10, 17 January 2020 (UTC)

Was able to grab a copy from the library - are those citations okay? PatTheMoron (talk) 06:44, 17 January 2020 (UTC)

Yep, they're good. I'll pass this review now. Scrooge200 (talk) 20:52, 17 January 2020 (UTC)

Cheers, mate! PatTheMoron (talk) 05:43, 18 January 2020 (UTC)

Proposed deletion of McCarthy 'criticism'

I would like to propose deletion of content that cites Tom McCarthy's "literary criticism". His simplistic musings are facile at best and speculative at worst:

• Point 1: Troubles faced by Tintin and Haddock on Carreidas' jet reflect a theme of "troubled host–guest relationship". So what? This is stating the obvious. It is neither interesting nor insightful. Anyone could come up with such bland observations.
• Point 2: Rastapopoulos' activities below radar detection reflect a theme of eluding detection. Again, so what? This is just stating the obvious.
• Point 3: The flagging relationship of Haddock and Calculus is a form of strained relationships in the series. Ditto. Strained relationships make for good drama and good comedy. This doesn't need to be spelled out.
• Point 4: McCarthy also highlighted the scene at the start the story in which Haddock mistakes Carreidas for someone trapped in poverty and gives him some money accordingly; McCarthy drew parallels between this scene and a similar one from Charles Baudelaire's poem "La Fausse Monnaie", suggesting that Hergé might have been thinking of Baudelaire's scene when creating his own. Baudelaire’s The Counterfeit Money story (not a poem, although it is just 521 words) is about a man deliberately giving fake money to a beggar. Haddock is not giving counterfeit money.

Note that McCarthy's Tintin book has a chapter claiming the Castafiore emerald is a clitoris. McCarthy's puerile and facile musings, dressed up as literary criticism, don't belong in encyclopedic content. Writing a book about Tintin resulted in publication, but it doesn't make it a good book, unlike Harry Thompson's superior Tintin: Hergé and his Creation. If there are no objections, I will delete the McCarthy content from this article. SiberianCat (talk) 11:22, 1 March 2021 (UTC)