Talk:History of Wales

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This article is written in British English, which has its own spelling conventions (colour, travelled, centre, defence, artefact, analyse) and some terms that are used in it may be different or absent from other varieties of English. According to the relevant style guide, this should not be changed without broad consensus.

Wales Top‑importance

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Middle Ages Mid‑importance

	Middle Ages portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Middle Ages, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of the Middle Ages on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Middle AgesWikipedia:WikiProject Middle AgesTemplate:WikiProject Middle AgesMiddle Ages articles
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Celts High‑importance

	History of Wales is within the scope of WikiProject Celts, a collaborative effort to improve Wikipedia's coverage of the ancient Celts and the modern day Celtic nations. If you would like to participate, you can edit this article or you can visit the project page, where you can join the project and see a list of open tasks or take part in the discussion. Please Join, Create, and Assess.CeltsWikipedia:WikiProject CeltsTemplate:WikiProject CeltsCelts articles
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History Mid‑importance

	History portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject History, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of the subject of History on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.HistoryWikipedia:WikiProject HistoryTemplate:WikiProject Historyhistory articles
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European history High‑importance

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The Welsh Language[edit]

The article concerning Wales retaining its language needs much improvement. As a Welshman, I can tell you that English is the only language spoken by a significant number of the Welsh, particularly those who live in the South. In the South, where the Welsh language is not at all evident, Welsh is taught from scratch in schools as though it were a foreign language. Until the arrival of S4C, there was very little programming available in Welsh in Wales. Much is being done to restore Wales's mother-tongue. 86.19.113.92 (talk) 13:22, 7 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

As a Welshperson who's lived and worked in a wide area of South Wales, I can't say I agree with you that the Welsh language is "not at all evident" as you put it. I know a lot of people who's first language is Welsh, but speak English in most places, because the English-only speakers (myself included) form such a majority. (And the article is perfectly clear on the fact that Welsh speakers form a minority). There are also plenty of (oversubscribed) Welsh medium schools in South Wales (although substantially outnumbered by English medium schools) which further belies your point about a lack of evidence of the Welsh language in the region. Also your anecdotal "evidence" has no real place on wikipedia. Cite some facts and figures from some reputable sources, and you might get listened to. 176.251.17.132 (talk) 14:36, 4 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Wording and the Monmouthshire problem[edit]

Re History_of_Wales#Conquest:_from_the_Statute_of_Rhuddlan_to_the_Laws_in_Wales_Acts_1283_.E2.80.93_1542 and Laws in Wales Acts 1535-1542

Does this, "it did for the first time define the England-Wales border " need to be clarified, on account of the Monmouthshire problem? Andy Dingley (talk) 11:02, 27 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Yes (though I don't have the book that seems to have been used as the source for the statement). Maybe state (in relation to the Laws in Wales Acts) that it "identified Wales as an area in which different laws on some matters were applied." As well as the "Monmouthshire problem", it's also not true to say that either set of legislation was "the first" to define the border - Aethelstan established the Wye as the border between the English and Welsh in about 927. Ghmyrtle (talk) 11:45, 27 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]

728 Battle of Carno[edit]

a possible Iolo forgery. See Talk:Óengus_I#Mount_Carno. — $Llywelyn II$ 02:57, 17 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

DNA Research:[edit]

Would advise this section is moved, unsure as to where, but appearing at a point within an otherwise chronological sub-sections is random and confusing. Also would the colon in the title be against Wikipedia style protocols?

Cymrogogoch (talk) 15:21, 1 November 2018 (UTC) .[reply]

Position of pre-history in article[edit]

A recent edit [1] changed the very beginning of the lede from "pre-history of Wales" to "history of Wales". This has problems because the article goes on to describe many details of a period that is, technically, before history began ("The history of Wales begins with the arrival of human beings in the region thousands of years ago...").

I get it, though. An article usually starts out with a definition/description of the actual topic of the article, bolded. So starting out describing pre-history has its problems. My bold solution would be to strip out the pre-historic material from the lede. It is covered in depth in the actual article, though there may be some references in the lede that are not in the article body; I'd be sure to retain those.

I thought I'd solicit opinion from other editors before I went ahead with that. _signed,Willondon (talk) 23:12, 22 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I fully agree with you and i have improved the lead and kept all sources. 212.108.147.176 (talk) 07:11, 23 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

That’s incorrect. “History” per any dictionary definition is the study of the “past”, or variants of that. Just because we use the idiomatic phrase “pre-history” doesn’t mean it’s outside of the definition. And now because the article rightly covers pre-history but the lead doesn’t it fails to comply with WP:LEAD so have restored it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by DeCausa (talk • contribs) 07:42, 23 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I agree with DeCausa. Ghmyrtle (talk) 07:44, 23 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I love waking up after a good sleep to find the work's all been done. Looks good, all. _signed,Willondon (talk) 12:43, 23 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Duplication[edit]

Could I draw editor attention to discussion here: Talk:Wales in the Middle Ages#Duplication. Thanks. Sirfurboy🏄 (talk) 13:29, 27 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Population Table[edit]

In this edit: [2] I deleted a population table. I place it here to make it easy for editors to find and revert if they disagree. My reasons for deleting, however, are as follows:

It uses two quite different sources, and that looks like it has a potential for WP:SYNTH, although the figures look reasonable on the face of it.
It only goes back to the 16th century and this article goes much further back
It is a lot of detail for an overview article, considering we have child articles
If we present this kind of data I would prefer some kind of histogram so that a reader can quickly see the shape of population growth as well as the range of the numbers.
The text does describe population growth, so we are not losing information by removing it

Hope that is ok. Sirfurboy🏄 (talk) 11:33, 2 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Historiography[edit]

there are plenty of Welsh historiography and Welsh Historians from Martin Johnnes, John Davies, Stephen Thompson has welsh biking and sports. Kenneth O Morgan has many welsh historiography Paul O Leary has some cultural identity papers too. Jamie Medhurts in his teaching and research has Welsh Television. Gethin Mathews specialises in Welsh World War One 148.252.129.105 (talk) 22:20, 11 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]