Talk:Tommy (The Who album)

Tommy (The Who album) has been listed as one of the Music good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can reassess it.

Article milestones
Date	Process	Result
September 17, 2014	Good article nominee	Not listed
September 18, 2014	Good article nominee	Listed

A fact from this article appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page in the "Did you know?" column on October 10, 2014.

The text of the entry was: Did you know ... that The Who's album Tommy has sold in the order of 20 million copies since its release in 1969?

Current status: Good article

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This article has previously been nominated to be moved.

Discussions:

RM, Tommy (album) → Tommy (The Who album), not moved, 9 September 2014
RM, Tommy (album) → Tommy (The Who album), not moved, 30 July 2016
RM, Tommy (album) → Tommy (The Who album), moved, 6 November 2019

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Providence of the 1996 remixed and remastered release[edit]

In the article, it is claimed:

1996 Remixed and Remastered Release

"Tommy was remixed from the original multi-track tapes, remastered, and released by MCA Records and Polydor in 1996 on the 30th anniversary of the original release with the following tracks: ..."

However, since it was released in 1969, it would be the 27th anniversary (1996-1969 = 27), not 30th. Of course, it is 30 years if rounding to the nearest decade. Am I missing something?
Enquire (talk) 02:24, 25 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Conflicting info: Film casting for the Pinball Wizard[edit]

On this page, the section about the movie states, "Townshend wanted ... to cast Stevie Wonder as the Pinball Wizard."

However, on the movie's page https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tommy_(1975_film) the casting section states, "Pete Townshend wanted Tiny Tim to play Pinball Wizard."

Dave Miller Gaming (talk) 15:05, 14 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

If one is unsourced and the other is sourced I think it's clearcut to substitute the sourced info including citing the source. Sincerely, North8000 (talk) 16:17, 14 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I guess I should have mentioned that both quotes have sources cited. It may be possible that both quotes are true since they are different sources. Maybe both pages should have both quotes, with a disclaimer of some sort. Note that I'm too new to Wikipedia to even consider making such changes myself. Thanks. Dave Miller Gaming (talk) 18:05, 14 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Then I think that including both with attribution ("according to....") would be good. One way to get started.....just be WP:Bold and try it. If you need help let me know or if like me to "spot" for you I'd be happy to. If you really don't want to try it, I'd be happy to put it in. Sincerely, North8000 (talk) 20:08, 14 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Re: Genre[edit]

[1]. Read the article. Hard rock is verified four times: once in Release and reception, then three times in Legacy and reappraisal. This gives it more weight than the mere one citation to rock opera which you insist on overepresenting in the infobox. Piotr Jr. (talk) 04:52, 25 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Could rock opera not be added to the infobox along with hard rock? Veverve (talk) 15:22, 26 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, I will cite your request in my next edit to the article.

And in response to this claim, the only secondary source (i.e. not Townshend) that is cited in the article mentioning "rock opera" is the critic Bayles: Tommy did not mix rock with classical music, as its "rock opera" title may have suggested, but instead was "dominated by the Who's mature style: ponderous, rhythmically monotonous hard rock". Piotr Jr. (talk) 15:28, 26 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@Veverve:, you're free to remove it yourself (I'm engaged in the edit war, so I think I should abstain). I've reported the user to ANI, and an admin has asked them to self-revert, but no response so far and judging by their attitudes I don't expect one if unprovoked (Wikipedia:Administrators'_noticeboard/Incidents#Genre_warring_by_AstralCiaran). Piotr Jr. (talk) 17:58, 27 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Genres are often subjective. The lead says that it's a rock opera, and IMO it's probably in the top two most most widely known as such. Also overwhelmingly identified as such in sources. IMO include both. North8000 (talk) 19:55, 27 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Genres are required to be sourced to secondary sources (WP:GWAR, WP:SUBJECTIVE). And the sources for "hard rock" currently outnumber those for "rock opera" in the article, the argument about whether a rock opera is a genre to begin with notwithstanding. And the policy on DUE WEIGHT would support my position to lead the infobox with "hard rock". Piotr Jr. (talk) 20:01, 27 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Are you advocating to just lead with "Hard rock" or do you seek to leave "rock opera" out completely? North8000 (talk) 21:38, 27 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I've made clear the principles and guidelines I'm advocating. If anyone wants to do the research and see where rock opera fits, be my guest. Piotr Jr. (talk) 01:19, 28 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for your input. Piotr Jr. has already updated the article, with hard rock as the primary genre. As I've said in the revision history, Tommy is basically the rock opera genre defining album, the two entities having become virtually synonymous, so rock opera deserves to take the lead, as the most salient defining characteristic of the album; more reputable sources supporting this could be adduced. Note that Music genre is distinguished from musical form and style. Rock opera is confirmed as a genre in the article itself, and at List of popular music genres. At the end of the day, user consensus prevails, regardless of any corroborating evidence or research. AstralCiaran (talk) 02:31, 28 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Wow. Piotr Jr. (talk) 02:33, 28 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Inaccuracies between lead vocals and song lengths[edit]

I recently changed the track lengths to what they were on spotify. These changed are accurate to the lead vocal lists. Particularly with "Overture" and "It's a Boy." The listed length for Overture ends before the vocals come in, and yet Townshend is listed with a vocal credit. I know these track lengths are based on the original vinyl editions, but they aren't accurate. Especially Pinball Wizard, which is listed as 3 minutes and 50 seconds, when the song is actually about 3 minutes long exactly. 73.54.216.187 (talk) 19:33, 28 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Did the lengths somehow change since the vinyl, or is one just simply wrong? North8000 (talk) 20:23, 28 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I think the length of Pinball Wizard on the wikipedia page is just wrong. I have an original pressing of Tommy, and it's the exact same length of the new pressings. I think we should just change lead vocals on Overture to "instrumental," and correct the length for Pinball Wizard. 73.54.216.187 (talk) 22:50, 28 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Even when you go to the Pinball Wizard song page, the length listed is "2:57" 73.54.216.187 (talk) 22:52, 28 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I apologize for all the replies, but I keep noticing more issues. Christmas is listed as being 5:30, when it's actually 4:30. We're Not Gonna Take It is listed as 6:45, when it's actually around 7:05. 73.54.216.187 (talk) 22:57, 28 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

The track times on the original LP are just plain wrong. Find a better source. Don't add your own original research measuring times with a stopwatch. Ritchie333 ^(talk) ^(cont) 10:28, 26 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Edit notice[edit]

Am I the only one getting fed up of edits like this one which just put the same incorrect information in the article again and again, despite a comment telling them not to? Anyway, I have created this template which now appears when you try and edit the article. Hopefully this will get things through to people, I don't want to get to the point where I call someone an idiot who can't read because that's not nice. Ritchie333 ^(talk) ^(cont) 21:18, 24 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]