Talk:Presidential Office Building, Taipei

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Move[edit]

I'm not sure whether this article should be renamed Office of the President of the Republic of China or Presidential Building (Taiwan). The administrative office and the building arent distinguished in Chinese, or are they? --Jiang 07:22, 10 Apr 2005 (UTC)

I just moved this page to Presidential Building (Taipei) to distinguish it from Presidential Building (Nanjing). "Presidential Building of Taiwan" should not be the name of the article because that is not the name of the building. Parenthesis are for diambiguation, anything outside parenthesis are assumed part of the name.--Jiang 00:16, 27 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Okay, Presidential Building (Taipei) is good.--Jerrypp772000 00:20, 27 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Nationalist, the "Taipei" is parenthesis is meant to disambiguate. There's another Presidential Building in Nanjing. It does not mean "Taipei" is part of the official name. The name of the building, as it is commonly referred to, is 總統府. The name does not have to include "Republic of China" as this is not part of the common name.--Jiang 02:32, 27 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Oops, I moved to Taipai, instead of Taipei. I've requested admin assistance to help complete. It should be fixed shortly. --Borgarde 14:19, 27 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

In Taiwan, it is still called the Republic of China Presidential Building. -Taiwanlove 20:33, 28 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

It's called 總統府.--Jiang 00:18, 29 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]
So I was wondering, why does the Chinese Wikipedia article call it 中華民國總統府 instead of 總統府? Vic226(chat) 05:40, 30 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

總統府 redirects there. But given this is English, we may have to specify.--Jiang 22:40, 31 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I'm moving this to Presidential Office Building. This is the English designation for the building given on street signs at the site. ( I have phots for documentation.) It also has the virtue of clarity, combining the terms "Presidential Office" and "Presidential Building" often used as short forms. (Most often English speakers in Taipei call it the "Presidential Palace." That is not its formal designation, though, and it's just as well. The English term "palace," with its connotations of monarchy, isn't really appropriate here.)

I am putting "Taiwan" in parentheses. No one disputes that the building is the seat of Taiwan's government. It has never been a municipal government building. Doing so is also consistent with our other articles on "national" or even provincial, structures in Taiwan.

Alton 08:01, 8 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Someone insists on forwarding this to (Taipei). I've worked hard on this article and on finding a solid, consensus-based and reference-based solution. I'm in no mood now for a game of editing tennis.

I appeal to our Wikipedia editors to settle this. The only reason to forward this article to "Taipei" is to make a partisan ideological point of a most non-mainstream kind. The overwhelming majority of people of any political affiliation in Taiwan have no quarrel with the way I had it because the heading was, after all, accurate. This has never been a municipal (Taipei City) government building, as I mentioned (did our page mover even read my comment?). It has always housed the government of the whole island of Taiwan. This holds true whether the person in that office personally regarded that island as a territory, colony, province or nation.

More practically, the redirect doesn't serve our readers. People who search for this article are usually going to enter "taiwan" along with some combination of the other words ("palace" "presidential" "building" "office" and the like).

I recommend leaving this article at Presidential Office Building (Taiwan) as I had it. Until the building is officially redesignated (or relocated!) by Taiwan's government, that is the most logical place for the article if we care about accuracy. Let's quit bouncing this thing around. Alton 10:43, 8 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The history and status of the Republic of China is a complex issue. Equating the Republic of China with Taiwan is simplistic and irresponsible.
This building is the office of the President of the Republic of China, not the office of the President of Taiwan. There is another office of the President of the Republic of Chian in Nanjing. As is the standard practice in Wikipedia, if you have two items of the same name located in two different cities, they are disambiguated by the city - thus, for example, Presidential Palace, Baghdad is not at Presidential Palace, Iraq, and Presidential Palace, Hanoi is not at Presidential Palace, Viet Nam.
Further note: as the buildings in Nanjing and Taipei are known by the same names in Chinese (總統府), their English translations should be consistent. Whatever is the title of this article should be the title of the other as well. --PalaceGuard008 (Talk) 13:14, 8 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]
(additional note re "It has always housed the government of the whole island of Taiwan.": Not true. Since 1949 it has housed the government of the whole of the Republic of China, whether you regard that as all of China or just the "free areas" - it certainly includes more than Taiwan. See Republic of China for details. The government of Taiwan per se was (and nominally still is) located at Chunghsing Village. --PalaceGuard008 (Talk) 13:20, 8 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

_______

As noted, I used the official English name of the site as it appears in government sources. It is fair, reasonable, and good editorial practice to use the same English designation that the government uses. (As I indicated, I can document this with photographs taken earlier today.) I have no objection to giving readers a literal translation of the Chinese as well. Our goal is to provide readers with information. And in English usage it goes without saying the 'building' houses the 'office'; there is no inherent contradiction. Both designations now appear in the article in proper context.

Nothing you have said contradicts my statement that the function of this building has always been to house the executive government of entire island. You have merely argued that it houses at least that much. My statement therefore stands. In fact, you amplified my point: this is not and never has been a municipal (city government) building. On this ground the article's location as I had it reflects the reality more than POB "(Taipei)", which is potentially misleading and unkinder to likely searches in any case.

There's little danger, if the official standard English term is used, of anyone confusing this structure with anything in Nanjing. In the event there is, the word "Taiwan" serves to distinguish the location as easily as "Taipei". Your concerns are clearly political on this point, not practical.

I am a Taiwan resident and do not need to be told the situation is complex. It is exactly those complexities I seek to do justice to and help clarify in meeting the needs of our readers. Taiwan is the subject of a variety of political interpretations. Yours is only one of at least three. To reflect only that point of view is to be truly "simplistic." Taiwan is a pluralistic society in a pluralistic world, and it is all to the good to acknowledge as much to our readers.

I have not moved the site back where I had it because I have no desire to get into a silly editing war. I have taken care to be as inclusive and considerate and accurate as possible. I appeal to the Wikipedia editors to settle these details.

If you want to be helpful and present readers with the classic KMT point of view, why not go to the Kuomintang article and explain it all to your heart's content? That's where the information belongs. Almost every other article we have on Taiwan links to that, so people will surely find it. And, as you will see, that KMT article is in urgent need of references.

Thanks in advance for taking care of that for us. Alton 16:19, 8 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I don't understand your accusations of political bias here.
Identifying the building as being in Taipei is both logical and factually correct, and further is more precise than identifying it as being in Taiwan. As I have said before, it is standard practice in Wikipedia to disambiguate buildings according to their precise location, i.e. city.
Your labelling of the building as being in Taiwan is less precise, and has the added disadvantage of being susceptible to an interpretation that President of the Republic of China = President of Taiwan, which is contrary to Wikipedia policies on the subject.
Your argument fails on wikipedia practice (buildings being disambiguated by city), policy (precision), and NPOV (susceptible of interpretation of Taiwan = ROC).
Finally, would you care to spell it out for me just how supporting the disambiguation of the building by city, as is standard practice in Wikipedia makes me a KMT supporter? Are you also accusing the locations of Presidential Palace, Baghdad and Presidential Palace, Hanoi of POV-pushing? I am appalled by this failure to WP:AGF - and the assumption that anyone who disagrees with you must belong to the opposite political camp. --PalaceGuard008 (Talk) 00:35, 9 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

_______

Chunghsing Village is the capital of Taiwan Province, which isn't really the same as "Taiwan."--Jerry 13:26, 8 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Sure. But Taiwan Province is closer in terms of its administered territory to Taiwan than the Republic of China. I was merely trying to illustrate that it is inaccurate to say that this housed the government of Taiwan. --PalaceGuard008 (Talk) 13:28, 8 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Ok. I don't think it really matters, because neither "Taiwan" nor "Republic of China" should be included in the title. Should the article be moved to "Presidential Office Building, Taipei," though?--Jerry 13:35, 8 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Sounds good to me. --PalaceGuard008 (Talk) 13:48, 8 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

List of presidents?[edit]

What is the list of presidents doing here? Especially the pre-1949 ones who didn't sit in this building? _______________

We could use a chronological in-text list of Japanese governors and Taiwan presidents with years of their terms. Crosslinks can take people to the other stuff. I may do this later, but if someone else wants to take that on, I'd appreciate it. (Odd that the name of the original Japanese Governor-General goes unmentioned. Does anyone have this?) Alton 10:43, 8 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Design of the building[edit]

The articles says it's designed as two squares. I heard the layout was designed on the shape of the kanji "nichi" (sun), which stands for Japan. Indeed, the building does look like that character from above. Was this intentional? 61.216.1.92 (talk) 09:52, 3 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Entrance[edit]

An interesting feature is that the main entrance attached to the front of the building is obviously based on the main gate to the Presidential Palace in Nanjing. Ian (talk) 12:52, 16 November 2021 (UTC)Shangyien[reply]

External links modified[edit]

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Requested move 25 July 2022[edit]

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: moved. Moved to Presidential Office Building, Taipei (non-admin closure) CollectiveSolidarity (talk) 03:46, 1 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Presidential Office Building (Republic of China) → Presidential Office Building (Taiwan) – WP:COMMONNAME for disambiguator. Previous consensus include Talk:Ministry of Economic Affairs (Taiwan) and Talk:Ministry of Education (Taiwan) Vycl1994 (talk) 19:08, 24 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

This is a contested technical request (permalink). Scorpions13256 (talk) 12:22, 25 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Comment then Oppose - As Taiwan's sovereignty is not determined just yet, I’d prefer to keep the name as it is. My prefer suggestion is to change the name to Presidential Office Building (Taipei) similar to the one in Nanking. —184.146.37.152 (talk) 15:11, 26 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
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