Talk:Four Treasures of the Tuatha Dé Danann

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[Untitled][edit]

Very like the four suits of the Minor Arcana (duck and cover) Wetman 15:20, 24 Feb 2004 (UTC)

i've altered them to remove that speculative connection. i'm still unhappy with the terminology "master(s) of wisdom". Whateley23 00:05, 22 July 2005 (UTC)[reply]

and now i have removed that offending terminology, replaced with one of the terms from the actual texts. i've also removed the idea that these Druids/Filidhs entrusted the treasures to anyone, as that idea does not come from any actual text. Whateley23 06:32, 6 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I think the idea was that they supervised the use of these items. --Auric 17:36, 13 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Wrong association?[edit]

The article gives the following association between treasures and cities:

From Falias was brought the Stone of Fal
From Gorias was brought the Spear of Destiny (Spear Luin)
From Findias was brought the sword of Nuada (Claíomh Solais)
From Murias was brought The Dagda’s Cauldron, the Coire Anseasc ("Undry Cauldron").

However, The History Of Ireland [1] gives a different association:

Four gifts with them (brought) from afar,

By the nobles of the Tuatha Dé Danann:—

A sword, a stone, a shapely cadron,

A spear for facing tall champions.

Lia Fáil from Fálias hither,

Which used to roar under the king of Ireland;

The sword of the hand of Lúgh the active,

From Gorias-choicest of great store.

From Finias far over the sea,

Was brought the spear of Lúgh who was not weak;

From Murias—great prodigious gift—

The caldron of the Daghdha of Iofty deeds.

In other words, the sword and spear are exchanged. As the article is currently unsourced, I will amend it next week unless someone finds a reliable source supporting the article's current associations. --Safalra 19:34, 22 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Harry Potter Reference[edit]

No such confirmation has been made, this is wild speculation on the part of fans. Remove the reference or reword to show the speculative nature of the comment (I can't as I'm having trouble logging in) —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 84.203.55.109 (talk) 21:55, 22 December 2006 (UTC).[reply]

"Said to hold Ireland above the waves."[edit]

Both this page and the Lia Fáil page make this claim, but I can't find any other source that corroborates. It does not appear, that I have found, in the only given source. Is this a recent addition to the stone's repertoire? One-dimensional Tangent (Talk) 02:22, 23 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

agreed. i've removed it. if someone has a source for it, they can put it back in (but i doubt that such a source exists). Whateley23 09:51, 23 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

new page for Claidheamh Soluis[edit]

I noticed that the Claíomh Solais made a REDIRECT to this Four Jewels page. But Claíomh Solais should not automatically be equated with Nuada's sword. So I remove the redirect and wrote up a page of its own. Kiyoweap (talk) 04:31, 27 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I just deleted an IP user edit that equated Nuada's Sword to Claíomh Solais ("Sword of Light"). Nuada's sword is not called that in the Four Jewels texts, and you can't just equate them.

The entry for "Claidheamh Soluis, Claíomh Solais" in Mackillop's Dictionary states that it is "A symbol of Ireland attributed, in oral tradition, to Cúchulainn.. [2] It goes on to give a brief precis of a folktale involving a giant, and that it was a symbol by the group declared republic in the 1916 Easter Rising, including Patrick Pearse who was of course chief editor of the An Claidheamh Soluis journal.

MacKillop under this entry does not mention at all that it should be regarded as equivalent to Nuada's sword, so there is no reason to believe such equivalence is commonly accepted interpretation of mythographers.

The equivalence occurs in context rather outside mythology/folklore, viz.:

Novels by Jim Fitzpatrick (artist): Book of Conquests (1978), The Silver Arm (1981), Érinsaga (1985).
Japanese reference book Kokū no kamigami 虚空の神々 (series: Truth In Fantasy 6), ISBN 4915146243 [3], which lists Fitzpatrick's novels in its sources.
Allegedly, Eoin MacNeill, co-founding editor of An Claidheamh Soluis, claimed this equivalence in some non-specifically cited piece of writing, according to private communication from an undisclosed Irish scholar to Mr. Unka (雲霞), at this talkpage.
James Joyce in Finnegans Wake (1939) introduces the characters "Clive Sollis" "Galorious Kettle", etc. based on the Four Jewels, pointed out by user Unka above.--Kiyoweap (talk) 00:43, 20 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]