Talk:Eikaiwa school

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POV?[edit]

A POV check might be in order for the last part of this article, specifically in reference to the "250,000 yen is hardly enough to get by in a big city" comment. This is total conjecture and bias, no source listed, and certainly many people do 'get by' on a whole lot less than that amount. --Whimper 03:14, Mar 11, 2005 (UTC)

why is the salary included at all? has no place in an encyclopedia article. i'm taking it out Binkymagnus 04:17, 2005 Mar 23 (UTC)
If the offending POV portion has been removed, I'm going to remove the POV flag too, cool? --Brad Beattie (talk) 02:04, 26 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I think it is fair to put the average salary as part of article. While it certainly is a POV as to whether or not you can get by on 250,000 yen per month, the lifestyle you are able to live with this salary back home (US, Canada, Australia, etc) is far better than what you can get in Japan. Knowing what the average salary allows for others to do research on the average cost of living and will give people a better idea of what to expect. HeavyJ 05:01, 13 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I think that is fair. There is not a lot of balanced information out there on Ekaiwa: the majority is self-promotional company information, while the rest is made up of disgruntled ex-employees. As an alternative it might be better to note that the salary level is the minimum required for the appropriate visa by the Japanese Foreign Ministry[[1]] as reflecting what a Japanese citizen could reasonably expect as a minimum salary from such a job. Given that the Japanese government sponsored JET programme pays substantially more and also subsidises housing (not the case with Eikaiwa), I think there is a good argument that we should include the salary so that people are aware of those conditions.--Shakujo 01:19, 29 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Pejorative Statement[edit]

Suggesting the the reason why 97% of Eikaiwa instructors leave in their first year is: "a lack of genuine reasons for being in Japan in the first place" is at best pejorative and biased, at worst xenophobic. "Eikaiwa teacher" is not a sub-category of "illegal immigrant". The use of the phrase "genuine reasons" implies that Eikaiwa Instructors are in Japan for some illegal reason.--Shakujo 06:10, 29 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Oddities[edit]

We read:

The most widespread of the eikaiwa schools are often referred to as the "Big Four" and are generally agreed to be:

and then a list of four. But what language is this reference in? If in English, do English-speakers often talk about this? If Japanese, does this actually mean ビッグフォー, or 四大 something or other, or something else again?

Another thing: The article seems to promise to be about English conversation within Japan, but then pretty much ignores this and is instead about a couple of aspects of English conversation schools in Japan. -- Hoary 08:48, 8 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Criticisms[edit]

I've come across alot of material that is critical of Eikawa, and have been thinking of adding a "criticism" section or something along those lines. there's actually too much information for me to look through, but would appreciate it if others could take a look a few links and maybe give opinions:

Dr. Brian J. McVeigh, a social anthropologist, lived in Japan from 1987 to 2003 engaged variously in studying, researching and teaching. He has published widely and frequently gives public talks. Although he taught courses in anthropology at universities in Tokyo, he has also taught a number of English courses. Recently, he accepted an appointment at the University of Arizona.
Professor Braj B. Kachru is the Director of the Center for Advanced Study at the University of Illinois, Champaign, USA. He is the world's leading scholar in the field of world Englishes; he has pioneered, shaped, and defined the linguistic, socio-cultural and pedagogical dimensions of cross-cultural diffusion of English, holds appointments in linguistics, education, comparative literature and English as an international language, authored or edited 20 books, written over 100 research papers, sits on the editorial boards of eight scholarly journals, and is a recipient of the Duke of Edinburgh Award.full bio
Douglas Lummis spent the years 1961-1963 in Nara and Kyoto, Japan, and returned to U.C. Berkeley in 1963 to study political theory. In 1968 he returned to Japan to write his Ph.D. thesis. He taught at Tsuda College, Tokyo, until his retirement in 2000. His books include: English Conversation as Ideology, 1976; A New Look at The Chrysanthemum and the Sword, 1982, Japan's Radical Constitution, 1987 and Radical Democracy, 1996.
Keiron D. Bailey, Assistant Professor of Geography and Regional Development. Ph.D., Geography, University of Kentucky (USA) 1996: M.A., Geography, University of Hawai'i (USA) 1991: B.Sc. (Honors), Geography, University of Birmingham (England) 1988: B.Sc. (Honors), Mechanical Engineering, University of Birmingham (England)
Harry D. Harootunian University of Chicago Ph.D. (History) Michigan, M.A. (Far Eastern Studies) Michigan, B.A. Wayne State. Former Max Palevsky Professor of History and Civilizations, University of Chicago; former Dean of Humanities, University of California, Santa Cruz; former Editor, Journal for Asian Studies; former Coeditor, Critical Inquiry.
William Marling, Ph.D. Professor of English, Co-Director, World Literaturefull bio
Peter Ninnes is a Lecturer in Education Studies at the University of New England, Armidale, Australia. MA in Educational Anthropology, PhD in 1995. His research includes educational anthropology; anthropology/sociology of knowledge; informal learning and socialisation; race and ethnicity in educationbio

Topics in a 'criticism' section would address the instances of racisms, sexism, fraudulent precepts that commercial school utilize, etc. as noted in the above texts Statisticalregression 22:55, 30 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

It is fair enough to add properly sourced criticisms, although it would be best to 1) forcus on building the rest of the page first 2) keep criticisms concise 3) find the original sources that are referenced in the sources above if possible. As for the sources, the first one looks quite good and could give a broad perspective of criticisms, the second seems marginal, and I can't open the third one. -- Sparkzilla talk! 03:28, 1 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Not sure why the third link won't work for you, it's an adobe PDF (actually a primary source that some other sources have cited as a reference). Maybe try right-clicking and 'saving as' .... the top two are books which have been occasionally used as sources for articles in Linguistic publications (particulary the McVeigh). There are others. little tied up at the moment, hopefully someone else will take the initiative.Statisticalregression 03:56, 1 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I would be interested to know if anything has been written on fraud in the industry. Several times I have not been paid for work done, and others have told me they have experienced the same, sometimes involving large sums of money. How widespread is this problem, outside Nova of course?Andycjp 02:44, 15 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Renaming page[edit]

Following on from the recent AfD discussion, I suggest that this page is renamed for the following reasons:

I suggest "English language education in Japan (Eikaiwa)" should be used. I have no issue with the term Eikaiwa being used in the article text. -- Sparkzilla talk! 03:28, 1 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Is all English language education in Japan Eikaiwa?
- You could create an article called "English language education in Japan" with sections about how instruction is provided at the primary education, secondary education, higher education levels, including adult education, and alternative education. A determination would need to be made as to which category Eikaiwa would fit in to.
- Alternatively, perhaps renaming this article to one of the following
  • "Eikaiwa (Conversational English instruction In Japan)"
  • "Conversational English instruction In Japan (Eikaiwa)"
  • "Eikaiwa (Conversational English Schools in Japan)"
  • "Eikaiwa (English Conversation Schools in Japan)"
  • "Eikaiwa (English Conversation Schools)"
............ or some other permutation?Statisticalregression 07:48, 3 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I would go for one of the first two. I don't think that "Eikaiwa" (English Conversation) is an abbreviation of "Eikaiwa Gakkou" (English Conversation Schools) except colloqually among the non-Japanese speakers that work there. In the pidgin spoken by Eikaiwa teachers, one might well say "They are buildng a new Eikaiwa in front of the station" or "She is the boss of my Eikawa" (to mean school in both cases) but the equivalent statements would in Japanese add school. Is it appropriate to name an article using an idiom spoken only by English speakers in Japan? Eikawai is an abbreciation for English Conversation Instruction/Education. --Timtak (talk) 05:34, 28 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I know Spark isn't here anymore, but to clarify - Eikaiwa has no English equivalent. Wikipedia has likewise articles for gaijin, Chargé d'affaires, Albur etc. Not all English education takes place in eikaiwa (see JET Programme for one example). --ZayZayEM 03:10, 15 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I would strongly support a parent article English language education in Japan, which would cover teaching, curricula, organisations and students.--ZayZayEM 03:16, 15 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Abbreviation[edit]

Isn't "Eikaiwa" in itself already an abbreviation for "eigo kaiwa" (English language conversation)? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 217.234.83.102 (talk) 10:35, 17 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

That's how I understand it to be as well....Statisticalregression 00:36, 18 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]
No abbreviation. Eikaiwa is "English language conversation". Conversations have to take place in language, so it doesn't need to be specified.--ZayZayEM 03:05, 15 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
"ei" is often used to mean English in words without the go, such as in a "waeijiten" Japanese English dictionary, or "eiyaku" translation into English. Eikaiwa is not an abbreviation as eiyaku is not an abbreviation of eigoyaku.
Relatedly, I am not aware that "Eikawai" is an abbreviation of Eikaiwagakkou English Conversation School, except perhaps amon non-Japanese speakers.

Staff[edit]

In the Staff section, "Eikaiwa school managers generally do not have formal backgrounds in management, but some do have Japanese language skills that allow them to communicate with Japanese management." appears to imply that (1) Special Japanese language skills are required to communicate with Japanese management and (2) Having a formal background in management helps cultivate those special language skills. Also, it's unclear what Japanese management actually means, considering that these Eikaiwa school managers are, by definition, also managers. Does anyone know what this is meant to say? -- Tangotango (talk) 03:45, 30 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Regarding the "Japanese management"... the most notable examples (Aeon, ECC, Geos, Berlitz) are Japanese companies with the business management (finances, payroll, investments) of Japanese employees (i.e. employees whose citizenship is Japanese & if I might extrapolate a bit, are ethnically Japanese). Employees who are foreign nationals do seem to manage other foreign employees, but there appears to be a separate structure between the two although I can think of a few exceptions to this. Alot has been written or reported on about specific companies but there are far fewer articles on the eikaiwa industry as a whole.Statisticalregression (talk) 05:11, 1 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I see. Then the paragraph should start with "Eikaiwa school teachers" or similar, no? "Eikaiwa school managers" seems to imply the ethnically/nationally Japanese managers who run these businesses, not the foreigners who go to work at them. - Tangotango (talk) 09:30, 1 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

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