Talk:Hrólfr Kraki

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Origins for Rolf Krake[edit]

Feel free to add references, links and your thoughts on this subject, email me at [[1]].

(Wilmer Thomas)

Even though I feel free, I hate to post anything that might be wrong or incompatible with the version you're following. However, here are some changes I'd like to make, based partly on Anderson's version:

(After Rolf becomes king.) Many heroes come to serve Rolf, most notably Bodvar Bjarke. (Bodvar means "battle".) Twelve in particular were recognized as his best men. This article omits the stories that are told about them.

(After the escape from Adils.) In Svitjod, Rolf is joined by a young man named Vögg who gave him the nickname Krake. ("Krake" means a kind of primitive ladder consisting of a conifer trunk with the stubs of its branches. Rolf is physically unimpressive, especially compared to some of his twelve companions.)'

(Under "Origins of the myth".) The character names given in parentheses here are the Anglo-Saxon names from Beowulf of characters who seem to correspond to those in Rolf's story. However, the alignment is not definite.

The myth of Rolf ruling over a golden age and surrounded by legendary heroes may be compared to the myths of King Arthur and the Round Table and to those of Charlemagne and his twelve paladins in the chansons de geste

Any mistakes in there?

JerryFriedman 23:02, 13 Jan 2004 (UTC)

By the way, is Sweagris a Danish name or an Anglo-Saxon one?

Old East Norse (Old Swedish and Old Danish).--Wiglaf 22:47, 28 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Hrolf's champions[edit]

I noticed that in this article the twelve men following King Hrolf Kraki in his campaign against King Adils are described as being berserkers. In the versions that I have read, Bodvar Bjarki and Hjalti had previosly defeated and dishonored most of King Hrolf's beserkers. Thereafter in the saga the twelve men are known as his champions. This group is composed of Bodvar, Hjalti (formerly Hott), the thee brothers Svipdag, Hvitserk, and Beygad, and the some of the remaining berserkers.

The use of "champion" instead of "berserker" is probably only a matter of choice. In Skaldskaparmal, these twelve men are indeed described as berserkers[2].--Berig 10:39, 20 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

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Alleged murder of Hrothgar's heirs, and skepticism about[edit]

The section specifically relating to Hrothulf's limited role in Beowulf unsurprisingly repeats the common idea that he will go on to become the murderer and usurper of Hrethric, his young cousin and heir apparent to Heorot (despite this succession being called into question in the text). However, this supposition is based on one particular interpretation that has simply been repeated without further proofs to the point of being treated as canonical, in spite of the poem's text saying very little to suggest it, and external sources contradicting it in royal rolls. Marijane Osborn lays this out on Cambridge University Press's website in her abstract of her longer article:

This story, that many Anglo-Saxonists assume is integral to the ancient legend of these kings, is a modern misreading of the poet's allusions to events associated with the Scylding dynasty — a legendary history that the poet arguably takes care to follow. The present essay, in two parts, first shows how the idea of Hrothulf's treachery arose and became canonical under the influence of prestigious English and American scholars, then finds fault with this idea, refuting its “proof” from Saxo Grammaticus and showing how some Anglo-Saxonists have doubted that Beowulf supports an interpretation making Hrothulf a murderer. But when the poet's allusions to future treachery are ambiguous, at least for modern readers, in order to exonerate Hrothulf fully one must go to traditions about the Scylding dynasty outside the poem.

OSBORN, M. (2019). THE ALLEGED MURDER OF HRETHRIC IN BEOWULF. Traditio, 74, 153-177. doi:10.1017/tdo.2019.9

Full article: https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/traditio/article/abs/alleged-murder-of-hrethric-in-beowulf/9DF3B46112F93FD9D02540BF3108EDB0

Given the minimal evidence for the current prevalent reading, that interpretation should at least be listed only as such, not as a veritable fact of Beowulf, while the alternative presented by Osborn ought to be acknowledged as well.

KellennCP (talk) 23:55, 15 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]