Talk:Quarky & Quaysoo's Turbo Science

from VfD:

Non notable computer game. --BM 22:20, 24 Dec 2004 (UTC)

• Comment. But it had Sheik Oil Slick. Try saying that ten times in a row. 82.92.119.11 22:26, 24 Dec 2004 (UTC)
• Delete, though game inclusionists may have other ideas. Wyss 00:04, 25 Dec 2004 (UTC)
• Keep. Published games are all notable (as opposed to flash games etc); also this one may be a milestone in the history of educational games. Kappa 04:18, 25 Dec 2004 (UTC)
• Delete: I don't think that games are our business per se. I view games as I do high schools, record albums, etc.: the obsessive attempt to collect all of them is vain and results in a pile of unuseful information if each is treated separately. Notable schools, games, records, etc. are notable; they're remembered or should be remembered, as knowledge of them is necessary for understanding the development of their artforms/sciences/histories. Geogre 04:50, 25 Dec 2004 (UTC)
  • So do you know this one isn't necessary for understanding the development of educational computer games? There can't have been that many ECGs around at that time, it seems to me that all of them are very useful to help me to understand their history. If you don't want "each to be treated separately" then propose a larger unit for them to be merged into - for me the category is enough. Kappa 05:21, 25 Dec 2004 (UTC)
    • 1992? There were educational games around long before then. If it'd been 1982, maybe. It also doesn't strike me as very notable. On the other hand, it might be worth something to its category as a whole. If nothing else, there don't seem to be many educational games with a focus on science listed. Weak keep. Shimeru 07:08, Dec 25, 2004 (UTC)
    • The problem is that a criterion of "might be notable" means that nothing gets deleted because until it is fleshed out there is no way to tell, and anything could be notable. The information that is going to establish notability is always about to arrive. The VfD voters shouldn't have to do the research the original author should have done; even a substub should hint at notability somehow. If the article does not establish notability, then unless someone can produce evidence of notability during the VfD process, it should be deleted. --BM 13:35, 25 Dec 2004 (UTC)
    • That's precisely my point. I urge people to vote on the articles, not the topics. The question is not "could someone ever write well on this," because to that the answer is invariably "probably," but rather, "Is this something that is needed as it is, and does it satisfy needs as it is?" The fact that all articles can be improved in the wiki system is not an excuse to go around writing, "The Belle of St. Charles is a street car in New Orleans" and then "Desire is an area of New Orleans" and "Angola is a part of New Orleans." None of those tell anyone anything, so, if there were a need to explain the reference, the article isn't doing it, and anyone who could "improve" it would also likely exceed it in less than one minute of editing. About this particular game, though, it certainly wasn't an industry leader, and there were thousands of educational games out in 1992. There were hundreds for the PC alone in 1984. This isn't Zoombinis, here. Geogre 20:11, 25 Dec 2004 (UTC)
      • OK this particlar game doesn't seem to stand out, but this article is not a substub, it has plenty of information to make it useful and interesting and can stand alone with requiring more context to make it meaningful (unlike a random pokemon). If there were hundreds of articles on educational games they could be make into a list or table to show similarities and differences but there's only a few different games in that category right now. Kappa 08:50, 26 Dec 2004 (UTC)
• Keep. Everyking 17:00, 25 Dec 2004 (UTC)
• Delete. I worked at an educational software publisher (Edmark) during that time frame (92-95), that was driven out of the business (forced into a 'fire sale' to IBM) because too many other companies were also publishing educational computer games. However, I don't remember this title being one that 'drove a nail into the coffin' of my then employer. Even just "turbo science" gets about 1K hits. Our science title "sammy's science house" gets 9K, and I still don't consider it particularly notable (same with our critical thinking title "Thinkin' Things", which gets almost 24K hits). Where in the World is Carmen San Diego? was a notable educational computer game of that era, launching a TV series, and spin-offs, such as 'Where in time...', and we haven't documented that, yet. Broderbund, The Learning Company, and Humongous (sp?) were the big ECG players at that time, not Sierra. Niteowlneils 17:15, 25 Dec 2004 (UTC)
  • See Carmen Sandiego and List of Carmen Sandiego products. Delete this, though, unless the article is changed to establish notability. Tuf-Kat 19:10, Dec 25, 2004 (UTC)
• Keep. Just another video game entry. Noting under deletion policy allows deletion of this. It's not like we haven't the space for this - we are unlimited in scope. Dan100 10:21, Dec 26, 2004 (UTC)
• Keep. It's commercially published by a well-known publisher, seems plenty notable enough to warrant a Wikipedia article. Bryan 20:09, 26 Dec 2004 (UTC)
• Keep as notable enough, and Sierra On-Line was certainly a big player at the time, while I never heard of Edmark as a company name, so puzzled by the above delete comment. DreamGuy 09:24, Dec 27, 2004 (UTC)
• Keep - nomination does not meet criteria of Wikipedia:Deletion policy - David Gerard 23:18, 27 Dec 2004 (UTC)
• Delete. Elf-friend 11:08, 28 Dec 2004 (UTC)
• Keep. Also created by Jeff Tunnell, a significant figure in computer games (creator of Dynamix, GarageGames, Tribes, The Incredible Machine, etc.). Mrwojo 20:05, 28 Dec 2004 (UTC)

end moved discussion