Talk:Ferengi

Space jews, Jonah Goldberg and credibility

Is it really legitimate to quote Jonah Goldberg on wikipedia? The guy is a noted crazy who wrote the "Liberal Fascism" book, which pretty much puts him somewhere between the Time Cube guy and Alex Jones in terms of ability to be taken seriously. Seriously, google the guy, he's a loony. I realise the "space jew" thing seems like its a reasonable argument, but wikipedia isn't about original research, and without a legitimate source, thats all this really is. 59.167.111.154 (talk) 03:08, 3 November 2012 (UTC)

Side note: (sorry if I am doing this wrong). But all of the stereotypes also apply to many other groups, particularly the racist caricatures of people from Pakistan. This is especially true of their over the top misogyny (not something commonly associated with Judaism but which is a major component of both their on screen culture and a major stereotype against both Islam and South Asia). Ferengi is even a slur in Pakistan. It seems a bit like the article is leaning to imply the Ferengi ARE space jews instead of that some people believe them to be so by not pointing out other options while including a quote by Jonah Goldberg, who as mentioned above has some credibility issues. 173.195.50.194 (talk) 18:01, 18 December 2012 (UTC) MN

The idea that the Ferengi were based on antisemitic stereotypes never occured to me until I saw it on this wiki page. The first thought that came to me when I saw it was "who could possibly be paranoid enough to have this thought?" So, I looked at this talk page, and saw the reference to "Jonah Goldberg". Lesson learned. 3eguoxn02 (talk) 20:11, 28 May 2013 (UTC)

Slavery and Racism

It's noted with the quote in characteristic that the Ferengi have never had slavery in their past. Assuming Quark is even telling the truth (Ferengi not known for their honesty ;-)), it's not true. They don't seem to have a problem selling other species into slavery, an example of this being the episode 'Rascals' where the Feringi tried to sell the enterprise crew into slavery like they had done with other species. It's also noted there is no racism in Ferengi society... Sell other races into slavery is racism...

Not to mention the series of reference to near slavery with working contracts, etc etc

How is selling another race into slavery racism? Arguably, Ferengi don't have a race, anyway... as far as we can tell. I don't recall seeing any yellow, black, or brown Ferengi.

I assume you are still referring to selling species into slavery. In Rascals, the Ferengi state they do not represent the Ferengi Alliance, so this is not nor can we assume ever has been a legal practice in Ferengi law.

'Near slavery' isn't 'slavery'. The Ferengi believe in the voluntary exchange of labour, vehemently... quite the opposite of slavery. The Federation, on the other hand, is less free... as you have no choice but to use the Federation's schools, hospitals, and transport. You can't pay to use a private company. You can't earn money to leave, and have to hope the Government will give you the means to leave Earth, for example. You are a servant to the State, even if not compelled to provide labour. The State *is* compelled to provide labour in the form of healthcare, for example. If noone wants to be a doctor, then how is healthcare provided? There is only no compelled labour because voluntary labour exists... but it is not guaranteed. It would be a huge crisis if people couldn't be coerced or convinced to do essential or undesirable jobs.

Federation socialism/communism only works if people want to work or are coerced/guilted/pushed into working, to cover essential services. This is the part of Star Trek that is not covered, as it ruins the allure of socialism from an entertainment product. The State must be given absolute power over the individual to provide goods and services. If you don't want to work with the State, you have no other options. This could be viewed as a kind of slavery or bonding... unless you are given the guarantee of being given a way to leave the Federation.

Now, the Ferengi do prevent women from earning money... which is more like Islam, if we are making Earth comparisons. Social pressure to be naked, an expectation that a woman will cut up and chew a man's food, penalties for making money, being denied entry to the main 'man's' league in that game with the Nagus and Quark's mother episode. We do not hear about the serious mistreatment with regards to forced marriages, rape and rape charges, and other legal horrors that real women from Muslim (Sharia) states must endure. AndrooUK (talk) 00:06, 7 August 2018 (UTC)

The word "slave" arrives into English through Medieval Latin Sclavus, which is a derogatory name for Slavic people. Last time I checked, some of them had the whitest people in the world I had ever seen. So conflagration of racism as being synonymous with slavery doesn't hold, especially not in a fictional universe. Canlawtictoc (talk) 10:19, 13 November 2019 (UTC)

Class

Their is clearly class system within Ferengi society, wealth has and always will be at the heart of a class system and their is no different for them. If you have money it's easier to make money, if your children were born to parents without the 'lobes for business' their chances of making profit where clearly less likely. Their is reference to inheritance practised in Ferengi society.

In deep Space 9 we saw the Nagus wanted to pass down his title to a family member but he was not ready, rather then simply finding the most qualified person...

Lobes = Balls

I think the following statement is incorrect or at least very misleading:

The Ferengi also colloquially use the word lobes much as the word balls is used in modern English (as in, "I didn't think you had the lobes for that!!")

I always took it to mean brains or instincts or natural talent. Most often it's "the lobes for business". I don't see how that translates to balls. Balls usually refers to bravery or machismo Ferengi are usually depicted as pretty cowardly. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.24.208.87 (talk) 08:35, 5 January 2010 (UTC)

It's mentioned right after discussion of their earlobes as erogenous zones, as though the phrase referred to a sexually-related part of the anatomy; but "lobes for business" does seem more like the Ferengi version of "head for business". B7T (talk) 23:42, 26 June 2010 (UTC)

Extended Universe

Is it worth mentioning Ferengi in the extended universe, including Ferengi characters developed and portrayed for years at Star Trek: The Experience athte Las Vegas Hilton? —Preceding unsigned comment added by S31 (talk • contribs) 22:59, 29 November 2007 (UTC)

Main enemy for TNG?

I miss something about how Gene Roddenberry and the Star Trek writers came along to make the ferengi. According to the TNG-episodes companion book, this race was originally created to replace the klingons as the new enemy of the Federation. First they planned to make an insect race, but they changed it due to budget costs. The ferengi turned out to be a failure. They were greedy, but so what? On the other hand, they made a much better use in DS9. Mendalus 23:58, 7 Jan 2004 (UTC)

It was the Borg who started out as insects and were developed as a new main enemy for TNG. Marshall 20:15, 24 March 2007 (UTC)

In TNG S1E25 "Conspiracy" the scorpion like parasites were set up to the the main protagonists to the Federation. However the Screen Writers Guild Strike happened and they were pressed for time to come up with a viable enemy. Hence the Borg, which were just people with makeup and costumes on, and a simplistic cube shaped ship. Also I think Gene Roddenberry had serious heartburn with that episode, recall that it was quite graphic and dark. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.244.229.177 (talk) 23:13, 16 January 2018 (UTC)

TNG Ferengi vs DS9 Ferengi

There are severe differences between TNG Ferengi and DS9 Ferengi, because the canonical concept of the Ferengi was only taking shape in TNG. For instance, the allegation that Ferengi have no concept of revenge except for schadenfreude is IMHO not true of TNG Ferengi. This discrepancy should be properly highlighted. 88.195.170.157 (talk) 10:50, 2 August 2009 (UTC)

Origins of the name "Ferengi"

While watching a movie from India some months back, I was struck by one word in the subtitles: Feringhee. It was used by the native residents of an Indian village to refer to the English occupiers at the time (late 19th century). After inquiring with several friends from India, I came to find out that the word loosely translates as, simply, "foreigner." Also, while it is inherently a neutral term, it can sometimes have pejorative connotations. The English at that time were often perceived as greedy, opportunistic invaders.

There may in fact be no connection whatever between "Ferengi" and "Feringhee," but the two words are unusual enough (at least to an English-speaker such as myself) that for them not to be connected would be an astronomical coincidence.

I was just going to write the same thing :) Maybe it was Lagaan? My Indian sources also told me that Ferengee is a derogatory term for outsiders. And although those subtitles spelled it ferengHee, it isn't an aspirated g, so it would be pronounced the star trek way. And what you said. MisterSheik 04:44, 21 Apr 2005 (UTC)

I've added some more (cognates?) words similar to Ferengi with the same "foreigner" meaning (i.e. Amharic and Greek). Yom 13:56, 22 March 2006 (UTC)

I'm pretty sure that "ferengi" (in Thailand: farang) is an Middle Eastern/Far Eastern form of the word "Frank" as in French or European. The Franks were the first Westerners to invade Arab lands and therefore all Europeans become known as Franks. Actually the ferengi might be a parody of Westerners as seen from e.g. a fundamentalist Muslim perspective. The ferengi being greedy capitalists and letting their women go naked and all that... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 62.107.138.198 (talk) 19:37, 25 December 2007 (UTC)

---

There is a stretch of beaches and bays called "Batu Feringgi" in Penang, Malaysia. See http://www.google.com/search?num=20&hl=en&q=batu+feringgi+portuguese&btnG=Search

There are various explanations for this name. The "Batu" means rock. The "Feringgi" has been explained by various non-academic tourism sources to mean "foreigner" or "Portuguese" in local languages (there were early Malay and Indian settlers here), or "foreigner" in Portuguese. There was at least one Web site that said this was a Portuguese trading post in the 14th century. Obviously these are not authoritative sources.

In any case the avaricious Star Trek Ferengis do act like the stereotypical Portuguese traders of the 14th to 16th century, especially considering that Malacca, 300 miles south in the Straits of Malacca, was conquered by the Portuguese in 1511.

---

Just as an addition, it should be noted that the Ferengi are referred to as Species 180 by the Borg. It was stated in VOY episode 5x07 (101) Infinite Regress by Seven of Nine.

☭ Zippanova 00:47, 30 November 2007 (UTC)

Ferengi language

The article states "In the Star Trek television shows, Ferengi are always shown speaking in English,", thou I do belive in episode Little Green Men http://www.startrek.com/startrek/view/series/DS9/episode/68242.html from DS9 they were observed speaking Ferengi. The group observes the Ferengi trio, who they believe to be Martians, then enter the room and attempt to communicate. Unfortunately, none of the three can either understand or talk back, since their universal translators were damaged in the crash. But it is a long time since I saw that episode, so I'm not sure. Does anyone know? :) 129.241.126.44 02:25, 17 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Not sure about Little Green Men, but Quark spoke a Ferengi word in Let He Who Is Without Sin and there was a teaser sequence spoken completely in Ferengi in Acquisition on Enterprise.--StAkAr Karnak 23:24, 17 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Yes, they do speak Ferengi in Little Green Men, this is confirmed in a DVD extra. --Jupix

The Jews of Space?

Fans sometimes complain that the Ferengi seem to be ill-conceived 'space Jews' because of their similarity to common Jewish stereotypes: they are short, have exaggerated facial features, and love money.

I'm removing this text due to its highly subjective nature (sans evidence) which is more representative of cherry picking than a valid statement. The Ferengi could easily be compared to Leprechauns (both are short, have exaggerated facial features, and love money). --Viriditas | Talk 09:49, 19 Feb 2005 (UTC)

There are a decent number of google matches for it. [1] --SPUI (talk) 20:01, 19 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Oh, I'm highly familiar with the claims, as well as an avid fan of the franchise. And, if you study the issue in depth, you will discover that the conclusions reached differ from the claim that has been made. Ferengi are considered by those who have studied the issue to be "other", not "space Jews". The original claim falls apart under close examination. These so-called stereotypes are global in scope and are not limited to any specific ethnic group stereotype. Also, interviews and quotes from the creators of the show do not lend credence to the claim. This is merely cherry picking. Some fans see a similarity to what they call "Jewish stereotypes" but ignore the dissimilar stereotypes. --Viriditas | Talk 20:50, 19 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Are there cases of fans comparing Ferengi to leprechauns or anything else (other than Yankee traders, which should also be mentioned)? Just because a claim can be shown to be false doesn't mean it's not worth covering. --SPUI (talk) 21:07, 19 Feb 2005 (UTC)

I agree, but that's not what this is about. The article should cover facts, not perpetuate original research, pet theories, and opinions of what some people believe. If there are interviews or established authors and authorities in the franchise who have commented on this issue, then by all means, quote them (and no, there are no cases TTBOMK comparing Ferengi to leprechauns). Some people believe that there are elements of the Piano Concertos by Edvard Grieg in the theme song for ST:TNG but that claim is merely an opinion and probably does not deserve mention unless it can be substantiated. What some fans believe isn't really relevant to this article unless the actors, writers, or creators have commented on the issue. --Viriditas | Talk 22:09, 19 Feb 2005 (UTC)

But what you are missing is that where there is an area of meaningful, widespread controversy, it is far better to edit it to note that there is a controversy and discuss the differing views, than to appoint yourself the arbiter of what is factual and delete the discussion altogether. Most people don't even know the discussion pages exist, so moving it to discussion is not a substitute for that. Whether it was meant as that or not, the perception that the Ferengi come across as the Jews of Space is very widespread (unlike your ludicrous leprechaun example), and the issue is a significant one (unlike your music example) - so deleting the comment is out of line.

They literally wear leprechaun clothing, are small in stature and hoard pots of gold...not that ludicrous of an example. 71.34.107.27 (talk) 03:09, 1 November 2019 (UTC)

This is not neccesarily original research. See

Wilson, Thomas C. "Compliments will get you nowhere: Benign stereotypes,

prejudice and anti-Semitism." Sociological Quarterly 37 (1996): 465-480.

This discussion has it's meeits however for faction we try to use the connon to explain. In the early edisodes of the next generation they clearly refered to them as business men of space, parralling them to the men of Wall Street.Kinbarney 25 June 2007 23:01 UTC

Bwahahaha, it's a comon assesment of this alien race. I would have to agree.

-G —Preceding unsigned comment added by 134.117.158.83 (talk) 00:42, 28 September 2007 (UTC)

There was a decent article comparing Ferengi directly to WWII stereotype images that had large ears,[2] but no archived version can be found with the images. This image [3] uses one of the images that was on the page, but the actual source for the "large eared" stereotype would be more useful. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.8.93.38 (talk) 05:57, 6 October 2007 (UTC)

Rewatching the series on Netflix, I came to the conclusion that they were a representation of the fears of Japanese mercantilism prevalent at the time. Compare the first appearance of the ferengi with this old WW2 cartoon[4]. Granite26 (talk) 00:04, 15 July 2011 (UTC)

Is everything anti-semetic? sheesh.... —Preceding unsigned comment added by Satv365 (talk • contribs) 14:26, 31 March 2008 (UTC)

Irrelevant. The question is whether there is speculation in the fanverse about Ferengi as antisemitic, rather than what the creators' intent was. Such speculations exist and have been arrived at by independent sources. It's like whether the Trade Federation in Phantom Menace is supposed to be Japanese. The speculation is an issue, whether or not the effect is planned. (For the record, I suspect this is a case of accidental characterization. I can't imagine Star Trek deliberately promoting an outmoded stereotype, and that Shimerman, Grodenchik, and Eisenberg play the most often written characters seems to have more to do with their height than their ethnicity.) SkepticalGal (talk) 18:24, 11 September 2008 (UTC)

I always thought the Ferengi looked like goblins. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 156.34.178.193 (talk) 19:47, 26 August 2009 (UTC)

I've removed the section yet again. Passing references to "Jews" does not necessitate inclusion. If, on the other hand, there is an academic paper on the subject that discusses the Ferengi, then we should consider it. But simply saying they are like Jews because the Ferengi have big ears and Jews have big noses? No, sorry. Do not pass go. Viriditas (talk) 11:50, 13 October 2010 (UTC)

The section was reinstated, citing Ross S. Kraemer's Religions of Star Trek, and Jonah Goldberg again (see first section above). It was removed in 2013 with this justification: "Ross S. Kraemer isn't really a reliable source. He wasn't a producer, a writer, or anything else. This paragraph is just plain racist." – Fayenatic London 08:09, 16 June 2013 (UTC)

This section is clearly anti-semitic. Only someone with an anti-semitic axe to grind would believe that characteristics of Ferengi are particularly relevant to Jewish people, as opposed to, for example, an insatiable lust for profit being an inevitable consequence of market economics and big ears being characteristic of elderly humans. I propose the second paragraph be removed and the section renamed to replace reference to Judaism with reference to modern humanity. With respect to sources, as pointed out elsewhere, Kraemer is merely an external commenter with no formal connection to Paramount, Roddenberry or Star Trek, while Goldberg is a joke. NPOV and Verifiability seem to be at stake here.217.151.98.168 (talk) 04:11, 21 September 2017 (UTC)

Ferengi is most naturally a cognate of Farang, which places the Ferengi as more of a satire of Western capitalism than an anti-Semitic stereotype. The use of embiggened cartilaginous facial features is obviously done just to make them look grotesque. Notably, white racists typically depict Jews with pointy chins, which are absent in the Ferengi (because they are not cartilaginous). The use of cartilage, a flexible lubricant, may also be intentionally symbolic of the Ferengi's role as mediators of trade across battle lines, or just accidental. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.117.186.70 (talk) 03:44, 15 January 2021 (UTC)

Slavery - Females?

" Moreover, the Ferengi have never had slavery and despite the profits other races such as the Orions have made in the slave trade, having an entire class of people who would be unable to purchase goods makes the practice unsavory in Ferengi society."

What about females? Or is there a subtlety about the position of women (pre Zek/Rom reforms) that I've forgotten? pomegranate 15:37, Apr 3, 2005 (UTC)

They also use Hupyrian servants, though they are not exactly slaves. Perhaps they are more like indentured servants. They are only allowed to speak to their masters and there has been no mention of payment, though that does not mean there is not any. I don't know if they must serve them for life or not either.

Several sites refer to an alliance between Ferengi and Hupyrians. The servitude may or may not be included in the alliance contract. If it is, certain Hupyrians may be assigned by their own government to serve high ranking Ferengi (or those favored by high ranking Ferengi) in exchange for cargo routes or supplies. These might be paid to their world by the Ferengi. This would explain why they take oaths to serve only one master, and never speak to another. This may be a contracted 'non-disclosure agreement' included in the Ferengi Alliance treaty.

Female Ferengi are not really considered slaves by Ferengi. In the Star Trek books, they described contracts arranged by the fathers of the females for marriages (usually limited to 5 years, at which the time the contract concludes and the divorce is automatic.) The female returns to the custody of her father. Even though foreigners consider it to resemble slavery, as I do, Ferengi consider it parental custody. They do not believe that females are smart enough to arrange marrages for themselves, and think they are doing 'the right thing '. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 50.157.56.227 (talk) 04:30, 4 October 2016 (UTC)

Fergeni Technology

"The Ferengi realize that Humans and other species often look down on them for their ravenous profiteering and lack of independent technological or cultural achievements." I don't think we can make that claim. Culture is a matter of opinion and the ferengi did invent the holodeck (or suite or whatever) not to mention synthehol. New technology is the source of immense profit...it simply doesn't make cultural sense that the Ferengi would be bad at it. --Atlastawake 16:53, 22 November 2005 (UTC)

It does if nobody (e.g. their government or cultural taboos) provides copyright protection. Why sink a lot of money into r&d if your competitors will just steal and copy your results? Unless interested parties could trust each other enough to form a joint-research cabal, technological development on ultracapitalist-era Ferenginar must have been really slow before contact with aliens (to buy or steal from). 128.255.157.250 23:16, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

Except that all credible (non agenda funded) research on the topic shows that copyright restrictions actually slow down market evolution, R&D, and competition in very nearly *all* cases. The best example would be the fashion industry, where change happens on a weekly basis in some cases, and copyright (and patents) have never applied. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 174.23.72.226 (talk) 11:50, 22 September 2010 (UTC)

New technology also comes at great cost... As stated in TNG scientists aren't highly regarded. Tech was bought from other races then exploited, i.e. buying warp tech from Breen — Preceding unsigned comment added by Street spirit (talk • contribs) 20:33, 1 July 2012 (UTC)

Tower of Commerce

I know the article is accurate but does anyone else think it's really strange that the tallest building in the Ferengi Alliance is only 40 stories tall? (This is doubly confusing as Ferengi are so short.) --Atlastawake 16:56, 22 November 2005 (UTC)

--- No, actually I don't find it strange. It's not uncommon for small people, like children, to have a fear of heights and large spaces because everything seems so much bigger and larger to them. Second, the home planet of the Ferengi is said to be very rainy and swampy. They would therefore have all the problems that the builders in Venice do, and although many of these problems could be overcome by "modern" alien technology, you would still have the costs of exotic materials, specially trained workers, storm damage and maintenance cutting into your potential profits. Height and weight would certainly be limited by lack of profit at some point. Third, the Ferengi strike me as a very traditional conservative people, because traditional conservative cultural values, like the "little black dress", are time tested, socially approved, good for more than one type of occasion, etc. and are therefore "thrifty" as opposed to experimental, faddish cultural values, like "go-go boots", that are quickly dated, limited to only a few occasions, prone to unexpected failures and unexpected expenses like broken heels and sprained ankles, and are therefore "expensive". Especially when you are talking about home and business construction with all of the possible lawsuits due to building failures --- think Leaning Tower of Pisa built on swampland --- and I would tend to believe that the Ferengi would err on the side of caution and tradition. Fourth, what constitutes "wealth" and "status" in a society is usually a function of their traditional conservative values. Britain and Japan still have kings and a faint class system despite modernization, Americans still go in for the "large car" despite killer gas crunches. For a Ferengi, an American ranch style home in the suburbs (short and wide) may be regarded as the preferred status symbol of wealth and power rather than the four story Vietnamese townhouse in the city (tall and narrow). And the same for business construction. You have noticed that Wal-Marts are short and wide whereas many of the businesses they have replaced like Gottchalks were multi-story, haven't you? --Spacewing

I read that farang is Thai for foreigner. --Gbleem 02:17, 10 December 2005 (UTC)

Arabs in space?

I recall that Ferengi had a strict dress code for women. Otherwise one might be tempted to take them off! What sexual depravity! . Other abrahamic religions promise the loving presence of God, but Islam promises worldly success like money and women, both in this life and the next. Muslims tend to regard Merchants as being the only decent job, which is why so many of them are merchants, partly because Mohammed himself is considered an ideal, and was first a merchant, but also, when necessary, a soldier. Traditionally they have had one single religious leader who took the role after Mohammed, I think it was the Caliph, but that part is not currently in use, although there are plenty of prominent people trying to take up that role. Ferengi also have, if I recall rightly, one religious leader. I could list a number of other possible similarities, so I went to this article and saw that Ferengi is an arab word for merchant.

Is Star Trek permitted in the muslim world? DanielDemaret 10:11, 5 March 2006 (UTC)

"The Muslim world" is a bit of a blanket term, but yes, as far as I'm aware Star Trek has been aired in a number of Muslim countries.

In answer to your other questions: it could be argued that the Ferengi had a specific dress code for women only in the sense that Ferengi women were forbidden to wear any clothes at all. So your 'sexual depravity' argument doesn't wash, and the point is largely moot anyway by the end of DS9, at which point the laws forbidding Ferengi women to wear clothes and participate in business transactions had been abolished. You won't get very far comparing Ferengi religion to Islam either. No spiritual leader has ever been mentioned. The Blessed Exchequer could be regarded as a God of sorts, although little is known about him. Furthermore, the Ferengi believe in the very un-Islamic concept of reincarnation (all of this is mentioned in the DS9 episode "Body Parts"). If anything, the Ferengi culture is closest to an extremely aggressive form of libertarianism. The exception to this is the role of women in their society (this always seemed rather at odds with their otherwise laissez-faire stance on social issues, and seems to be a remnant of TNG's failed attempts to present them as convincing villains). Really, though, the tendency to match up every alien culture in Star Trek with a contemporary racial stereotype is a rather tiresome one. Dooky 23:42, 18 March 2006 (UTC)

Thank you for informing me about the airing status.

Of course "muslim world" is a blanket term. It's just such a long list with qualifiers, so I was hoping to get off a simpler way.

I saw an episode where an very ancient looking ferengi was their religious leader. Great fun it was. Apparently one has to be more devious than all other ferengis together to have that post. And he certainly was. He fooled everone, including all other ferengis. One of the better DS9 episodes, I thought :) Wossname, that main ferengi merchant on DS9, was trying to get the position after the ancient ones death.

I was not really thinking that the StarTrek team had molded the ferengi after any ethnic group on purpose. I was just curious whether muslims had made that kind of connection themselves, in the light of a number of curious connections muslims have made during other events, especially when it comes to film censorship.

There are a lot of films and shows that are not permitted in north africa and the middle east for various strange reasons. For example, almost no western religious films were permitted a few years back, so it was a bit of a suprise to me that "The Passion" was made an exception to the rule, until I read that it was being promoted as an anti-jewish film over there. DanielDemaret 12:35, 22 March 2006 (UTC)

Woosnames name was "Quark". Me just writing "merchant" was not much of a description, was it? They all seem like merchants to me. As I recall it, Quark's business was having a bar on the station. The religious leader I was referring to was probably "The Grand Nagus", here described as a political and economic leader. Funny how I misinterpreted his status :) He had all the trappings of a theocrat, ancient age, long staff, that sort of thing :) Anyway, I am happy nobody else made the connection. DanielDemaret 12:42, 22 March 2006 (UTC)

Physiology

In the first contact episode with the Ferengi in TNG, didn't Commander Data state that they were much stronger than humans (while humorously lifting one completely off the ground). Shouldn't that be included in the proper section?

• I thought it was that they were stronger than they look, not specifically stronger than humans. But it's been a while since I saw the episode. HaganeNoKokoro 01:37, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

Every source on Ferengi says that their brains have four lobes, but this is not really accurate. Human brains have four lobes in each hemisphere for a total of eight. Surely it would be more accurate to say that the Ferengi have four hemispheres. Or hemidemispheres to be pedantic. Lexivore (talk) 06:39, 3 March 2012 (UTC)

List of Grand Naguses

Where does the list of Grand Naguses come from? I think that most of them are non-canon. UncreativeNameMaker 21:44, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

Etymology

WE've got a whole section devoted to the posible etymologies of the word, yet editors keep adding possible derivations to the Trivia section. I put a hidden comment there to alert future editors that there's alrady a place for the info. Any other ideas? -Will Beback 21:10, 24 October 2006 (UTC)

Could there be a link between the terms Ferengi term [nagus] and the Amharic [negus] 'king'? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.148.50.37 (talk) 13:26, 14 January 2010 (UTC)

There seem to be a number of things wrong with this section.

First, almost all of the words given in the etymology section are transliterations. These should surely be given in the appropriate scripts (Arabic, Urdu, Greek, etc) along with their respective transliterations. For example, there can be no word "faranj" in Arabic, because Arabic doesn't use the Latin alphabet.

I have changed the ad hoc pronunciation to IPA to avoid ambiguity: /fɛˈrɪŋɡi/. This matches what I think was intended, and is the pronunciation (according to Chambers Dictionary, 1998) of the English word "Feringhi" (or "Feringhee"), defined as "an Indian name for a European" and derived from "Frank".

I don't believe that the Arabic and English can pronounced be identically. According to the comparison table at Arabic_transliteration, there is no phoneme /ŋ/ in Arabic. (I might be wrong - I know next to nothing about Arabic.) Furthermore, it is unusual for words to be pronounced identically in two languages (even if accent is disregarded).

"The Greeks used ... to refer to western Europeans" - does this refer to Ancient Greek or Modern Greek? According to my Greek dictionary (Oxford Paperback Greek Dictionary, 2003), φαράγγι ("farangi") means "gorge" or "canyon".

Finally, the article claims "the Star Trek usage is derived from the above. Which, specifically? Are all these words related?

Some references to reputable dictionaries are desperately needed, I think.

— Paul G 08:05, 22 April 2007 (UTC) (I can be contacted at Wiktionary, where I have the same username)

Before editing this section, it would indeed be better to have scientific sources rather than guesswork, that's why I didn't. For the question at hand, see Farangi or this old sum-up of a linguistlist discussion (which mentions the Modern Greek word - not φαράγγι but φράγγος). The connection of farang, ferenghi, ifrangi, papalangi, ...... (all meaning Westerner/Europid foreigner) to the Franks seems very convincing.--87.162.27.107 (talk) 14:25, 2 June 2008 (UTC)

You know, with all of the books written & interviews transcribed, I'm surprised that no one has bothered to document where the creators of the show got the word "Ferengi". Maybe they took the it from Arabic -- or perhaps another language which borrowed it from Arabic, like Amharic as the word "Negus" implies (which is Amharic/Tigrayan for "king"). I would tag the section with {{fact}}, except that there are some Wikipedians who would interpret that as a green light to delete the entire section. -- llywrch (talk) 18:30, 18 February 2009 (UTC)

From the text I quote <<or possibly the Persian word farangi, meaning "foreigner>> which I think is inaccurate (and somewhat misleading). Any reliable source for this statement? It seems to me that the opposite may be the case, i.e., that the word "farangi" indicating foreigner in Persian descends from "farangi" indicating the Franks (and other Europeans by extension) in medieval times. In fact, it is used so also in many Levantine Arabic dialects and seems to have entered the languages during (or shortly before) the Crusades. A source backing my claim is . I would remove that sentence, as it is misleading (unless someone finds a reliable source for it and quotes it). - cerniagigante (talk) 10:13, 12 September 2011 (UTC)

Agreed, and done. - – Fayenatic (talk) 18:52, 12 September 2011 (UTC)

Too bad that all mention of the etymology has been removed, because it sheds an interesting light on the idea behind the Ferengi concept – the etymological origin is very much compatible with the view that the Ferengi represent a caricature of 20th-century white people (Europeans, or Euro-Americans) seen through the eyes of the indigenous peoples of Asia. Compare Farang and Franks#Legacy. Either Ferengi comes directly from Persian فرنگی, or via Hindustani/Urdu/Hindi फिरंगी (phiraṅgī) / فرنگی or via Malay ferenggi, or, in fact, South Asian/British English Firangi/Feringhee. Persian and Malay are closest in pronunciation, but the expression Firangi/Feringhee is more widely known among Anglophones. Hmmm. By the way, the term Grand Nagus (not to be confused with Grand Magus, hehe), pronounced [ɡrænd ˈneɪɡəs], indeed recalls the Ethiopian royal title Negus, as remarked above. I don't think these similarities are both coincidences, but I haven't seen any official acknowledgment of the connections, so they are strictly OR, unfortunately, which is why I'm leaving this as a talk page comment. --Florian Blaschke (talk) 20:56, 26 July 2015 (UTC)

Ferengi Games?

What about the Ferengi Games often mentioned and played in the DS9 series? Some information about Dabo and Tongo can be found here in wikipedia, but I don't know how to spell the name of the game that Nog and Jake often mentioned to have played together.--208.247.100.130 03:38, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

The game's Name is Dom-Jot, and it's not exclusively a Ferengi game. It was played by Starfleet Officers and Naussicaans in the TNG Episode "Tapestry", and there is no reference to the Ferengi as it's creators. Not to say that they didn't create it, but the only real mention in DS9 was that Jake loved to play it and hustled a number of players at it much like is done with Modern Day Billiards and Pool.--JYHASH 03:37, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

Incomplete Sentence

This sentence (from the second paragraph under "Ferengi Alliance" seems to have been truncated somehow:

"More recently it has been determined that you cannot make a profit if you're in which women are forbidden to wear clothing or leave the home, and can absolutely never make profit." —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 69.165.144.200 (talk) 22:28, 25 February 2007 (UTC).

Females and clothing

Second only to their focus on profit, Ferengi have the reputation for being lustful. However, most Ferengi characters we see are away from home, in environs where they are confronted with alien (clothed) females. I recall in one of their earlier TNG episodes a Ferengi explaining that they consider women wearing clothing to be vulgar or enticing since the practice essentially invites others to unclothe them, "the ultimate in perversion!" Thus, perhaps views of lustful behavior by Ferengi males should take this into account; by this hypothesis, they would show more self-restraint when among nude women (e.g. in their own society). (Although, later Ferengi see female nakedness simply as part of lower status.)128.255.137.11 02:29, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

Free image request

Wouldn't it stand to reason that someone would have a decent mock-up of the face make-up by this point and could feasibly release a freely licensed photo for the lead? MrZaius^talk 12:32, 20 August 2007 (UTC)

Repetition

Sections on Ferenginar, Ferengi Alliance and Geography and Architecture are largely repetitious. Also contradictory claims regarding the potency/extent of the Ferengi Alliance. --SianMycock 03:07, 28 September 2007 (UTC)

Then Wikipedia:Be bold and merge the tightly related ones together - Those four sections could easily become two. This article's very much a work in progress - only ever advised to ask permission when removing sourced information, when making controversial edits (how's that for vague?), or when making radical changes to Wikipedia:Good articles/Wikipedia:Featured articles. MrZaius^talk 07:15, 28 September 2007 (UTC)

Merge in ship article

The ship article has very limited notability, and so it would be much better here as a section of this one under their technology, could bolster this article in general. Judgesurreal777 (talk) 17:17, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

Agreed. Star Trek wiki, or another specialist wiki, may have a separate article but here I can see no reason not to merge. Also agree it could improve this article if done well Whitstable (talk) 18:50, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

Non-canon name for Ferenginar

In the Star Trek: The Next Generation book "Debtors' Planet" (#30) by W.R. Thompson, the name of the Ferengi homeworld is given as Ferengal throughout the book. I have added this non-canon name to the article.--William Thweatt ^Talk | ^Contribs 02:07, 18 January 2008 (UTC)

Species 180?

In the Star Trek Voyager episode "Infinite Regress" it is quoted by Seven of Nine that Ferengi are Species 180. The Ferengi must have been assimilated centuries earlier to get such a low number. Might be worth putting in the article as first Alpha Quadrant species to reach the Delta Quadrant by an unknown method. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Specie8470 (talk • contribs) 06:21, 26 March 2008 (UTC)

as i recall, two ferengis travveled there by means of an instable (and, after they went through, collapsing) wormhole in some tng episode, but (again afaik), these two were found to be non-assimilated by the voyager in some episode... --84.129.151.225 (talk) 08:30, 1 September 2008 (UTC)

DS9 Roswell

In DS9, while going through the wormhole Quark and some Ferengi are transported back in time to Roswell, New Mexico. They are taken to Area 51 and questioned. Circa 1951 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.225.22.231 (talk) 08:26, 21 October 2008 (UTC)

So? Derekbd (talk) 05:05, 20 February 2011 (UTC)

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 Done - Fayenatic (talk) 08:59, 7 January 2009 (UTC)

Talk:Ferenghi

Related question at Talk:Ferenghi. --EarthFurst (talk) 11:41, 4 November 2012 (UTC)

Hew-mon

I think this text is worth including:

When many of the Ferengi characters speak of human beings, they generally pronounce the word human as "hew-mon" instead of the traditional pronunciation. Whether this is done as an insult against humanity and by extension, the Federation, or simply a holdover from the Ferengi language and syntax is never made clear in Star Trek canon.

The Ferengi have frequently been show on-screen pronouncing "human" as a drawn-out "hew-mon", and it's a characteristic of their speech. The second sentence however could constitute WP:OR and should perhaps be left out. JIP | Talk 09:13, 1 March 2015 (UTC)

So, you want to include something for no given reason, but you know better so you don't. Ok. Aside from being uncited, the whole thing was WP:FANCRUFT WP:TRIVIA (probably why it was uncited), which is why it was deleted. — Smuckola (Email) (Talk) 09:21, 1 March 2015 (UTC)

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Ferengi and Sikh parlance

Sikhs call people from outside India 'Ferengi'. Is there any known conenction there?

Ferengi immune systems

Currently, there is a paragraph about Ferengi immune systems:

“Ferengi have a strong immune system - during "Little Green Men" Quark is shown to be resistant to several doses of truth drug, and in "Babel" Quark is again unaffected by the Babel virus that has stricken almost the entire station, commenting smugly to Odo "you underestimate the Ferengi immune system, Constable".”

An immune system does not make a difference to a chemical/drug like a truth serum, as it does not have any living component that I am aware of. Unless I am misunderstanding the immune system, that is.

This could be rewritten to show that they have both a strong immune system and tolerance to certain harmful drugs/chemicals. The beetle snuff seems to also have some euphoric or narcotic effects, and Ferengi consume alcoholic drinks, so that would negate a strong resistance to chemicals/drugs in general, but a specific resistance to a truth serum, which is a moot point. AndrooUK (talk) 23:48, 6 August 2018 (UTC)

Why does the article not mention that Wallace Shawn played the Grand Nagus??? HandsomeMrToad (talk) 11:39, 9 February 2023 (UTC)