Talk:International Federation of Red Cross and Red Crescent Societies

Notes

The Swiss flag is derived from the Christian cross. Chadloder 02:07 Apr 18, 2003 (UTC)

Founding

"These rules were contrary to the Red Cross principles of universality and equality among all national societies, a situation which furthered the concerns of the ICRC."

The revised statutes of the ICRC that included universality and equality were incorporated in 1921. Therefor it is impossible that the rules were in violation of these principles in 1919. (Timoluege 15:34, 28 August 2007 (UTC))

Equality among the national societies had been proposed much earlier, in the late 19th century, by Gustave Moynier, president of the ICRC from 1864 to 1910. So it was de-facto practice within the movement when the League was founded, and the 1921 revision of the ICRC statutes only formalized this long-standing practice as a binding rule (probably in part due to the controversy around the League's statutes). At least that's my impression, and that was also the reason why the text mentions universality and equality as "Red Cross principles" and not "ICRC principles". . But I will check François Bugnion's book on the ICRC regarding this matter. --Uwe 16:03, 28 August 2007 (UTC)

I believe you are referring to the principles foresight, solidarity, centralization and mutuality from 1875 (see IFRC presentation). I still think my point is valid. Since universality wasn't codified as a binding rule it was impossible to violate it. (Timoluege 13:18, 29 August 2007 (UTC))

Moynier has published a considerable amount, and among other topics the fundamental principles were a frequent issue in his publications. He changed his mind somewhat on this topic in the course of time. Following his 1875 proposal which you mention here (which, by the way, is also sometimes dated to 1874 in several sources like François Bugnion's book), he mentioned the principles of universality, charity, fraternity, equality and non-discrimination in later writings (see this article from the "International Review of the Red Cross"). Unfortunately, I can't find a more specific source for this right now though I believe that this is discussed in more detail in one of the books on my bookshelf.

Furthermore, the principles which were written into the ICRC statutes in 1921 did not come out of nowhere. They were merely an official affirmation of principles which had been long-standing custom by centuries of practice, in great part due to Moyniers work as president from 1864 until 1910. --Uwe 18:10, 29 August 2007 (UTC)

On another issue, I've re-added the part on the landmines-related acitivities of the Federation. See the Strategy of the International Red Cross and Red Crescent Movement on Landmines for more specific information on the role of the ICRC and the Federation. The Federation plays a considerable role in awareness activities as well as in care and assistance for victims of land mines. --Uwe 18:26, 29 August 2007 (UTC)

I can see how that document might be misleading. The members of the International Federation do all these things. However, capacity buidling, awareness activities etc. are solely done in cooperation between the National Societies and the ICRC. The Federation as an organisational entity does not have a landmine programme however. I just talked to Operations Support in Geneva and they confirmed this. But yes, I agree, the document you linked leads to that impression. To avoid going back and forth betwen versions (mines in, mines out, mines in...) I will leave it in for the time being so that we can discuss this matter further. (Timoluege 07:40, 31 August 2007 (UTC))

Activities and Responsibilities

The tasks listed at the bottom of this paragraph seems quite arbitrary and is extremly incomplete. Since it is impractical to list all areas the Federation is involved in, I'd suggest that we change this to the four main core areas: promoting humanitarian principles and values; disaster response; disaster preparedness; and health and care in the community. (see here) (Timoluege 14:08, 29 August 2007 (UTC))

Translation from the German Wikipedia

Dear Wikipedians, I've prepared a translation of the article about the International Red Cross and Red Crescent Movement from the German Wikipedia. Compared to the current version of the English article, the German article provides a lot more details and information. Furtheremore, the translation also contains more information about the International Federation of Red Cross and Red Crescent societies than the current English article about the Federation. I kindly ask you to check the translation at

International Red Cross and Red Crescent Movement

As I'm not a native speaker of the English language, the translation probably contains some unusual or even obscure wording. You are welcome to edit the translation directly. In addition to that leave a comment, either here, on the discussion page of the translation or on my personal discussion page. Any ideas or comments are highly appreciated. My ultimate goal is to transfer the translated version into the English Wikipedia. Best Regards, Uwe from the German Wikipedia

Move to create IFRC article

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the debate was Move.

User:Draeco/Fed → International Federation of Red Cross and Red Crescent Societies — This article should be moved into the main namespace as part of the ongoing effort to split the International Red Cross and Red Crescent Movement article. - Draeco 23:30, 26 February 2007 (UTC)

Survey

Add  # '''Support'''  or  # '''Oppose'''  on a new line in the appropriate section followed by a brief explanation, then sign your opinion using ~~~~. Please remember that this survey is not a vote, and please provide an explanation for your recommendation.

Survey - in support of the move

1. Support as nom. - Draeco 23:32, 26 February 2007 (UTC)

Survey - in opposition to the move

Discussion

Over a week with no input; I'm contacting an admin for the move. - Draeco 18:18, 8 March 2007 (UTC)

Within Movement

Moved from my talk page. -- ZH8000 (talk) 12:56, 9 August 2018 (UTC)

Could you clarify this reversion? It is unclear to me, and I assume to other lay readers, what "the Movement" is, and why it might be capitalized. You also reinstated a typo (a missing period after the last sentence in the section). Marquardtika (talk) 18:52, 8 August 2018 (UTC)

Hi @Marquardtika:, all, ICRC, IFRC, ARC and all other national organizations are part of the Movement, therefore this chapter describes relationships within the Movement and not to other organizations outside of the Movement. -- ZH8000 (talk) 12:56, 9 August 2018 (UTC)

The ICRC is both an org other than IFRC and within the movement. I changed the header to the mention ICRC specifically, which is what the section is about. I hope that clarifies it for readers. Station1 (talk) 18:25, 9 August 2018 (UTC)

@Station1: Thanks, that is clearer. Speaking as a lay reader with minimal knowledge of the Red Cross, I can say that the term "the Movement" meant nothing to me and was unclear. Marquardtika (talk) 21:24, 9 August 2018 (UTC)

@Station1: I don't agree, it is about a conflict of primarily ARC with ICRC, but this involved also the IFRC, so a Movement-internal conflict. -- ZH8000 (talk) 08:47, 10 August 2018 (UTC)

If that's so, the section needs to be rewritten to say that. As it appears now, it says it's about a former conflict between the IFRC and ICRC. Station1 (talk) 09:36, 11 August 2018 (UTC)

The issue here is what on earth is "the Movement?" It doesn't appear to be defined anywhere, and it means nothing to a lay reader. Do you mean "the movement of Red Cross affiliated groups" or "the movement of XYZ..." Please specify. The fact that "Movement" is capitalized is extra confusing. Is it even meant to imply a proper noun? In any case, please, please try to make this clearer for lay readers with no familiarity with the Red Cross, as that is who we can be expecting to be reading this article, and trust me, we have no idea what the heck "the Movement" is supposed to mean, so either define it or change the wording to be more clear. Marquardtika (talk) 20:13, 10 August 2018 (UTC)

I think it's referring to the International Red Cross and Red Crescent Movement, but as a minimum that should be spelled out. Station1 (talk) 09:43, 11 August 2018 (UTC)

In the third paragraph of the lede, it says, "The IFRC is part of the International Red Cross and Red Crescent Movement..." (my emphasis) so it already is spelt out at the top of the article, but I do agree, that a single sentence added to the section in question to save anyone the trouble of having to (re)read the rest of the article would be a good idea. TheVicarsCat (talk) 17:13, 11 August 2018 (UTC)

Leonard Findlay

Leonard Findlay was the first director of child welfare t in 1919.

References