This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Armenian genocide article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject.
Under the discretionary sanctions imposed at Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Armenia-Azerbaijan 2, this article has been placed on a one-revert rule. Any editor who makes more than one revert in a 24-hour period will be blocked. Please edit cooperatively, and seek consensus and compromise rather than edit-war. Moreschi 22:17, 27 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
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I think the content in other page is highly relevant but also so short that it might as well just be included here. That work might need to occur alongside analysis of the source problem flags that exist on the "rescue of..." page. Armeym (talk) 01:43, 10 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose This is a featured article, it already contains all the content that it should. A better solution would be expanding the rescue article. I recommend Mouradian's The Resistance Network as a source. (t · c) buidhe 01:56, 10 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Buidhe I saw you put the range, but I put "around 1 million" to similarly match the one for the Holocaust. A book by historian [[Richard G. Hovannisian]] puts the toll between 600,000 to 2 million, with a United Nations report putting it at around 1 million. Should the whole range be put or an approximate value? Reaper1945 (talk) 03:19, 11 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
We had discussion about this a while back, and there was consensus to put the 600,000 to 1.5 million range in the infobox if one was included. 2 million is not credible according to recent scholarship (although 1.5 isn't well supported either). (t · c) buidhe 03:21, 11 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Got it, I'll check for any recent clarifications of the death toll if there have been any made in the 2020s, if not, the 2019 source you provided seems best then. The source by Richard G. Hovannisian is from 1999, though may have some relatively good information. Reaper1945 (talk) 03:24, 11 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The truth is that 1.5 million (or up to 1.5 million, for instance 1.2 million, 1.3 million) is very well supported (see Archives for this talk containing a myriad of RSs supporting these figures) and are widely used among genocide scholars, politicians, legislators, human rights activists, international lawyers, etc. Your lousy “around one million” is not well supported. Proof? There is no single reference in the opening para supporting that figure. Would you stop misleading your readers and insulting the professionalism of specialists in this subject area, please?73.173.64.115 (talk) 20:47, 29 April 2024 (UTC)Davidian[reply]
This editor (t · c) buidhe, for years now, stubbornly refuses (as if she owns the article, which is against Wikipedia's rules and regulations) to place the death toll range in the opening sentence. Many "battles" were fought on these Talk pages to remind her, over and over again, that in order to maintain a neutral point of view, Wikipedia editors MUST include ALL significant points of view with appropriate attributions. See: WP:CONFLICTING. It's to no avail. It's like spitting into the wind...73.173.64.115 (talk) 22:11, 2 May 2024 (UTC)Davidian[reply]
Berliner Tageblatt, 4 May 1915 Newspaper Source[edit]
When I checked the newspaper source mentioned in the article and book, I do not see anything related to this topic in both morning and evening editions dated 4 May 1915. So, this source should be removed.
The quote is real as you can easily verify with Google, it's even the title of of a Swedish book. It's possible that the date is wrong (t · c) buidhe 18:32, 13 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
According to Ihrig, the quote is from "Wilhelm Feldmann, “Unterredung mit Talaat Bei: Die Völker des türkischen Reiches im Kriege,” Berliner Tageblatt, 4 May 1915."
However, there seems to be a typo as it was actually 1916:
Bozarslan et al. says it was in "May 1916" but don't provide a date, they got it indirectly.
Gunter Levy (not really a RS), puts it on 5 May 1916[1]
subsequent to me writing the article, this exact quote seems to have been lifted repeatedly by various students and newspapers. I guess it was the right decision to block quote it. (t · c) buidhe 01:18, 14 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
This is indeed a very strong claim that I cannot confirm in other sources. (If you look at Google scholar results, there are significantly more for the Rwandan genocide than the Armenian genocide.)
Regardless, we're going to need a stronger source than one book by Bartrop to include this claim. I wonder how he arrived at this conclusion, or if he just cites Rummel from 1998. (t · c) buidhe 04:46, 14 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Since there is no response, I'm removing it. (t · c) buidhe 06:24, 15 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Paul Bartrop is a legitimate source as a historian, looking on Google Scholar alone is original research in of itself to deny what something may be. Is there any actual source which states that the Rwandan genocide is studied more than the Armenian genocide? Reaper1945 (talk) 00:27, 17 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
There are a lot of genocides in history, so the claim of "second most studied" requires more support than you have shown. WP:REDFLAG
If only one recent source says it, regardless of whether I thought it was true, I would have to argue for exclusion because of WP:UNDUE. Everything in this article could have several citations behind it! (t · c) buidhe 01:59, 17 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 7 May 2024[edit]
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The annotation concerning number of Armenians killed in the box on the right doesn,t prove given number. In the text it is stated: "(...) one milion or so (...)". Eleczeks (talk) 17:52, 7 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]