Talk:St Pancras, London

Major tidy up and adding of more facts

References are now sorted and more information is added, but there's so much more to St Pancras - any help gratefully received. Matt (talk) 20:45, 23 January 2009 (UTC)

Who is St. Pancras?

What did St. Pancras do? Where is he/she from? Pistolpierre (talk) 22:37, 27 December 2007 (UTC)

St. Pancras or St Pancras?

Does anyone know (for sure) whether it should be 'St.' with a full stop, or 'St' without? I know this article seems to have it almost completely without, but is that technically correct? Especially as there are a couple of refernces in the artiucle with a full stop. 163.164.17.57 (talk) 09:29, 16 December 2013 (UTC)

Modern practice in British English is that 'St' for 'Saint' has no full stop. Since it ends with the same letter as the full form (like 'Dr' for 'Doctor') it's strictly speaking a contraction (omitting letters in the middle) not an abbreviation (cutting short at the end), whereas 'Prof.' for 'Professor' IS an abbreviation and would traditionally have a full stop. Some older publications would have used 'St.' with a full stop, so if you quote them or their titles you need to follow the original text if it uses a full stop. I don't know what American practice is or what the official Wikipedia recommendation is! John O'London (talk) 10:12, 16 December 2013 (UTC)

From Wikipedia manual of style MOS:STOPS "Contractions that do not contain an apostrophe almost always take a period in North American English, but the stop is optional in British English: Doctor can be abbreviated Dr. in American and Canadian English, but Dr. or Dr in British English. If in doubt, or if the dot-less usage could be confusing in the context, use the stop." In this case the owner of the facility, Network Rail, do no use a full stop in the name so we should follow its style. S a g a C i t y (talk) 12:20, 16 December 2013 (UTC)

Thanks for the MOS reference, Saga City. But I don't think it's entirely do-as-you-please 'optional' in British English. Having 'opted' for one version, you need to stick to it - or follow whatever the house style of the publication you're writing for requires. I shouldn't have said 'Modern practice in British English is...' but perhaps 'One popular version of modern British English usage, recommended by the Oxford University Press and followed by most British publishers, is...'. However, I can't agree that 'In this case the owner of the facility, Network Rail, do not use a full stop in the name so we should follow its style.' This article is about the district, not the railway station (where, yes, we should follow 'local' house style) - but why should we think that anyone in Network Rail's marketing department is an expert on English grammar or usage? (By the way, this subject has been discussed at length on the St Pancras station article talk page https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:St_Pancras_railway_station&oldid=239528813#Requested_move ). Other Wikipedia pages like 'St Pancras Old Church' and 'Metropolitan Borough of St Pancras' also omit the stop. On the other hand, the 'King's Cross St. Pancras tube station' article apparently follows local style in including the full stop! John O'London (talk) 14:20, 21 December 2013 (UTC)

PS - it gets worse. The Transport for London website http://www.tfl.gov.uk/gettingaround/stations/1000221.aspx makes it clear that stations like 'St. James's Park' DO have a full stop, while the Royal Parks website http://www.royalparks.org.uk/parks/st-jamess-park insists it's 'St James's Park' WITHOUT a full stop. John O'London (talk) 14:57, 21 December 2013 (UTC)

https://books.google.com/ngrams/graph?content=St.+Pancras%2CSt+Pancras&case_insensitive=on&year_start=1800&year_end=2008&corpus=15&smoothing=3&share=&direct_url=t1%3B%2CSt.%20Pancras%3B%2Cc0%3B.t4%3B%2CSt%20Pancras%3B%2Cc0%3B%2Cs0%3B%3BSt%20Pancras%3B%2Cc0%3B%3BST%20PANCRAS%3B%2Cc0 indicates the dot version used to predominate but was overtaken in the early 1960s but is making a come-back so it could be said to be neck and neck! S a g a C i t y (talk) 16:01, 21 December 2013 (UTC)

Brilliant, Saga City! I'd never come across that site - I can play with it for hours! (But are they all books in 'British' English?) John O'London (talk) 17:18, 21 December 2013 (UTC)

Suggest you try changing 'corpus' to 'British English' - then 'St Pancras' is still leading by a long way! John O'London (talk) 17:21, 21 December 2013 (UTC)

Did so, and swapping between American and British is fascinating. Make me wonder why the Americans write about the place so often. S a g a C i t y (talk) 19:20, 21 December 2013 (UTC)

Pancridge

Just adding a note to say that the area was referred to by the name "Pancridge" in the middle ages and early modern era. I have just come across this in Thomas Dekker "A Rod for Run-awayes" (1625) and am aware of other references. I put it here for interest as it is not referred to in the article. It is not as far as I know an "original name", but a local (in time and location) variation on the name of St Pancras which lasted for some time.212.159.59.41 (talk) 13:30, 24 August 2019 (UTC)

Thanks IP, I've added the relevant info, and a footnote abot its passionate parson  :) Cheers! ——SerialNumber54129 13:49, 24 August 2019 (UTC)