Talk:The Notorious B.I.G./Archive 1

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Archive 1

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Trivia

Biggie's diss track "Kick In The Door" was directed towards fellow New York rappers Nas, according to Nas on his song "Last Real Nigga Alive" and Jeru the Damaja, according to a XXL Magazine interview with Jeru and producer DJ Premier. Each emcee had a verse dedicated to him: the second verse being directed at Jeru, the final and third verse of the song being directed at Nas.

Is it just me or does this seem a little weird? Maybe it doesn't make sense at all, or maybe it is just bad grammar. Or maybe I'm just slow.

Also, "Biggie was good friends with now rivals Jay-Z and Cam'Ron and ironically instrumental in both of their careers." Seems a little odd too. How is it ironic? He helped alot of people early in their careers. He worked with Ma$e, who was good friends with Cam, but they are beefin..should Ma$e be mentioned too??

Should Guerilla Black be mentioned too? Many people criticise him for looking like and sounding like Biggie.

Also a track by Haffa was recently released on hiphopgame.com. It is titled 'Near Death Experience (a conversation with B.I.G.) Where the rapper imitates Biggie, as he asks him questions about his death and about current rappers.

He is also of the innovators of the increasingly popular rapping method of not writing their his lyrics on pen and paper.

I can't make heads or tails of that..

What's to make heads or tails of? While other rappers of the time wrote their raps on paper before they recorded, Wallace would improv his lyrics as he went(spit them).

-- I think this is debatable. I have seen and heard several "freestyles" by Biggie which turned out to be pre-written. There are a lot of rappers who base their style on freestyling to a much larger extent than he did. I think this piece of trivia should be altered or removed:

Biggie had the ability to create verses in his head and was able to freestyle tracks on the mic without the use of pen and paper. This skill was also shared by Jay-Z, which lead to their eventual friendship. This was also a reason why he has very little posthumous material. Other artists who use this unique style of rapping (and cite Biggie as an influence) include Lil Wayne, Kanye West, and Common.

Is this really a valid reason why he doesn't have more posthumous material? 2pac created lyrics on the spot when recording, and he has 29 posthumous albums. All rappers have the ability to freestyle to a certain extent. This piece of trivia makes it seem like you either have the ability or you don't. It is not really a unique style of rapping, it's only a way to create verses. Whether someone has this skill or not is vague, especially when there isn't much "battle material" available to determine whether the verses are indeed improvised. Also, the mention of the other rappers is completely unneccecary. There is no way Kanye West is known for his freestyling skills.

Life after death isnt the second best selling hip hop album ever because of this. 1. is 2 paxs 7 day theory 28 million 2nd. eminem marshall mathers lp 21 million 3rd is eminem show by eminem 1 mill so biggies album luife after death is 4th or 5th best selling!

Source Magazine's greatest MC

Is it true that, "in March of 2001 The Source Magazine crowned Biggie as the greatest MC of all time?" If so, that should probably be put back in the article. Tim Ivorson 08:33, 16 May 2005 (UTC)

Yes it is true. The Source recently just named Jay-Z as the current greatest MC. They also named T-Head as the most likely to rise MC.

tupac moved to LA becuase of biggie?

it says in this article that tupac moved to los angeles because of his beef with biggie...can someone back that shit?

That's doubtful. I believe Tupac moved to L.A. around 1991, before releasing 2Pacalypse Now.

Did you guys know that before rapping he thought about having a career as either an artist or computer programmer? I remember seeing VH1 awhile back and his mom was saying how he wanted to be a computer programmer when he was going to the private school.

Tupac was in Oakland at about age 13, he moved alot but its said that oakland is what made him who he was

In mainstream and inner-city hip hop circles, The Notorious B.I.G. is celebrated as one of, if not the greatest rapper of all time, due mainly to his lyrics' correspondance with the lifestyle he led,

I have issues with this sentence, and in general with the idoltry nature of some of the passages in this article. The above sentence mentions he was a good rapper because he was a good gangster essentially. This is inappropriate.

EDIT: Also, he was not rapping about his life, if you think about it, he was rapping about Tupac's life.

That isn't true Biggie is rapping about his life after dropping out of school to live on the streets.

Tupac was never half the man B.I.G. was. When B.I.G. was out hustling, Tupac was doing ballet.There is no evedince of this Tupac was out before bigge not the other way round.

Tupac was never half the weight of Biggie, 2pac was the best rapper of all time based on sales. Tupac was a better person with better songs and better rhymes. Tupac didn't do ballet anyway he was doing something useful with his life.

What the hell? He is noted by many in the culture as one of the greatest emcees to ever rhyme. I'm sure there is a shade of idoltry in Jimi Hendrix's article. The fact is Biggie IS celebrated as one of, if not the greatest rapper of all time among mainstream and inner-city hip hop circles. So the sentence isn't wrong or an exagerration.

But it is Weasely. Saying that Biggie is celebrated as one of the greatest rappers of all time is stupid, because the same could be said about anyone else. There are too many factors that divide peoples opinions. There is a huge difference between what ever you may think of a certain individual and concrete fact.

"Real Love"

Why is there no mention of Biggie's verse on the remix of Mary J. Blige's "Real Love"? That song was huge when it came out, and it was the first time many people heard of The Notorious B.I.G. (note that the "Real Love" remix came out before "Juicy").

SweetP112 22:00, 17 January 2006 (UTC)

That is a very good point.

Removed Vandalism

"early in his life he ran into a young rapper milkyway aka tommy lekkas he was a huge influence on Biggies Life they say that tommy taught him all his rymes." -- unless this somehow happens to be verifiable in any way I'm going to consider it vandalism.

Bard College

is it true that he went to Bard? I never read anything about that before. Could someone double check that?

Godwynn 2:43 A.M. March 15, 2006 CST - No he did not. He dropped out of high school.

Death of B.I.G.

In the part about biggie's death is a mistake: Tupac was shot in 1996, not in 1994

- Pac was shot once in the head in 1994 which only angered him. He was shot again, FATALLY, in '96.

he was shot 5 times in 1994 in his ass as well.

No he wasn't. He was shot 5 times in 94 and 4 times in 96 none of them were on his ass you stupid dumbass

Height typo

I don't think he's 6 feet, 23 inches. Could someone please check and correct that mistake?

Correct, he's 6 feet 32 inches.

Wait a minute biggie wasn't 8 feet 8 inches tall

Vandalism

It appears someone has replaced 'P' with 'B' in this article (as in Biggy, Notorious B.I.G). It's not funny. If someone could fix this, as I don't have the time, it would be appriciated.Represent EASTSIDE T.P.T 573 Aotearoa

Its pretty funny as long as it doesn't stay on long. Don't use New Zealand when you're reppin Eastside.

L.A.P.D.

Why don't you add in that the LAPD has named Suge Knight as the prime suspect in the Wallace murder investigation. According to one officer in the investigation, not only has he always been the #1 suspect, the only reason he hasn't been charged is because the LAPD "never had enough information to bring a case against him." There are plenty of newspaper articles on the topic. Also, I see little/no mention of the court case Wallace's family brought against the LAPD in here or the accusations of a police cover-up in the investigation (were they confirmed by the recent judgment?). [BTW: His family won the judgment and the LAPD is assigning new detectives to the rapper Lil' Cease denied Wallace's involvement with the Crips, although no other proof has been offered by the family, manager, or other associates. And #3: the Wallace family offered the time-stamped audio recordings as proof that Wallace was not in Las Vegas the night of the shooting. Additionally rapper Lil' Cease and Wallace's manager claimed to have been with him in the NYC studio the night of the shooting. This indicates that Wallace was not in Las Vegas, but does not universally discredit the theory that he had a hand in Tupac's shooting (#3). OTOH, to the reporter's discredit is the fact that he refused to name his gang informants. Sweeping assertions like 'universally discredited' don't apply in this instance.SqlPac 02:53, 12 April 2006 (UTC)

I'm sorry, but the notion that Puffy or Biggie would actually kill someone who said a bunch of mean things to them is preposterous. Suge Knight is a walking sociopath...have you heard him speak? Does Puffy, Mr. Black Gatsby, seriously strike you as a conspirator to murder in either the 94 OR 96 shooting? Anybody who says that doesn't understand who this men were and instead rely on their stereotypes and misunderstandings of hip-hop and inner city life. Suge Knight is relying on that article to fool you!! He should be charged in both murders.

Biggie Smalls

I read somewhere that Wallace was sued by some unknown rapper (from the Midwest or something) who was using the stage name "Biggie Smalls" before Wallace. This was supposed to have led to his name change to "Notorious B.I.G." Sorry I don't have the source handy, but might make an interesting sentence or two if you can source it. SqlPac 03:20, 14 April 2006 (UTC)

It was no big deal. There was no suing going on. The guy's name was Biggy Smallz so Biggie had to change his official name. Biggie didn't really care because he knew the other guy would disappear so that's it.MrBlondNYC 11:47, 21 April 2006 (UTC)

Memorized raps

do we have the source that says West makes the lyrics of his tracks in his head? 64.7.89.54 04:09, 11 June 2006 (UTC)

I saw Kanye West on MTV talking about the making of Late Registration and it was mentioned that the editing and re-editing of his verses was severe and thorough. I think that would discount the assertion that he uses the pen-free method of rhyming.

MTV

Where is the link for "He was recently recognized as the third best MC of all time on MTV.com."

Method Man the only guy on the Album Ready to Die?

Is this true? What about Diddy constantly talking in the background. Is that being featured? 202.69.183.7 06:04, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

What about SADAT X,

Best-selling rap album of all time

Life After Death is not the best-selling rap album of all time. It is certified at ten million copies, which translates to five million copies of a two disc-set. OutKast's Speakerboxxx/The Love Below is certified at eleven million copies (six million of a two-disc set). MC Hammer's Please Hammer Don't Hurt 'Em, however, is a one-disc set certified at over ten million copies. --Infamous30 14:57, 4 July 2006 (UTC)

OutKast, as of 2006, has not surpassed Life After Death. While the Mc Hammer statement is true, the RIAA does not differentiate between two and one disc sets.

Outkast's Speakerboxxx/The Love Below was certified eleven times platinum in May 2006. (Link: http://www.billboard.com/bbcom/riaa/index.jsp) It has surpassed Life After Death. --Infamous30 06:45, 8 July 2006 (UTC)

Why did someone change the sentence about Life After Death being the best selling hip-hop album, considering the link I provided above? Facts are facts. --Infamous30 07:41, 30 July 2006 (UTC)

The article doesn't say that Life After Death is the best-seling hip-hop album of all time. As far as I can tell, that agrees with what you've posted here, and what I see at the RIAA site. -- Mikeblas 02:35, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

The best selling rap album of all time was The 7 Day Theory by Tupac Shakur with over 28 million copies sold. Almost three times as many as Life After Death.

B.I.G. Acronym Comment

http://www.rapdict.org/Notorious_B.I.G. Contains some info on this. Many other sites having revisions of older Wiki has that information. <a href="http://www.google.com/search?num=100&hs=Q4N&hl=en&lr=&safe=off&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla%3Aen-US%3Aofficial&q=Notorious+books+instead+of+guns&btnG=Search">Link Is Here</a>. In fact, it was from older revision of Wiki I have seen this. I have also seen this from older Notorious BIG's Official Site. New site refuses to show any information regarding him. However, that search link provided has few proof including following links: http://news.softpedia.com/news/Notorious-Justice-20566.shtml http://rap-talk.net/viewtopic.php?p=55168&sid=d593068a43784fc9eac3d4e1a4e259b3 http://www.byroncrawford.com/2005/10/the_biggie_duet.html ... and... tada. MTV Source. http://www.mtv.com/news/articles/1470495/20030312/story.jhtml Thank you. Restoring my paragraph now. --Dooly00000 22:21, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

Most of those citation above simply copied from this wikipedia entry so they are not citations at all. However, thanks for providing the MTV article!! This got to the bottom of the confusion with his name and expalined that the 'Books' acronym is used only once a year at a charity party. I have moved this info down below in the article to a trivia section since it is not common usage of his name. Cshay 22:56, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

It's not exactly well-known. But isn't that what Wiki is for? I just hope it stays there for once, because it gets erased pretty frequently where ever it's placed... --Dooly00000 17:24, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

Now that we have a citation, I'm sure it will stay. Cshay 21:54, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

Platinum / Diamond

How could it happen that Life After Death is not listed on the List of best-selling albums in the United States? Can someone please verify this (not just add), because I didn't do so unles I'm totally sure it was certified. Lajbi ^{Holla @ me}Who's the boss? 23:04, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

Goto Biggieduets.com. That site has info on it somewhere... Don't ask, I saw it there. --dooly00000 17:01, 29th July 2006 (UTC)

Single

I have this freaking Single. Next time whoever remove this, I will report as vandal, because it's same damn person everytime. --dooly00000 17:01, 29th July 2006 (UTC)

first deal?

The trivia section says "His first record deal was in 1993 with Uptown Records." According to allmusic, he has no releases on that label; his first single came out on a label named "Life". Can anyone provide a cite for his deal with Uptown Records? Was there a deal that produced no releases? -- Mikeblas 14:55, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

I've removed this trivia item, as I can't verify it and have found a contradictory reference. -- Mikeblas 10:24, 19 August 2006 (UTC)

new picture on main page

does any one else feel it is about the *worst* photograph of biggie you could have posted? --andrew leahey 02:25, 6 August 2006 (UTC)

That's barely civil, but it's certainly not constructive. -- Mikeblas 05:15, 6 August 2006 (UTC)

how is that not civil? who did i attack? biggie? hes dead. the person who added the picture? they didn't take it, and its not of them. furthermore how is it not constructive? there was an image there before that was better, by criticizing the current image i am voting for returning to the old image. i thought that was clear. --andrew leahey 01:41, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

I didn't find it clear at all. It came off as overly venomous, whether you realize it or not -- indeed, you unconstuctively critizied the person who posted the picture, referring directly to their act of posting it. You didn't say anything about what you didn't like specifically, or what might make a better picture. If someone posts another one, how are we to know that you won't come along and assert that it's "about the *second worst* photograph of biggie you could have posted"?

While it's not relevant, it turns out that it is actually possible to criticize people who are dead.

Meanwhile, the only previous image I can find is a redlink. -- Mikeblas 02:13, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

Civility warning issued to: User_talk:Mikeblas Cshay 05:45, 19 August 2006 (UTC)

well i deeply apologize for coming off as overly venomous towards the picture poster. i specifically dislike the fact that it is a bad picture, in my humble opinion, and feel that a picture that did not posses that quality would be more fitting. --andrew leahey 03:26, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

What, in your opinion, specifically makes it a bad picture? Color? Contrast? Balance? Pose? Content? Cropping? -- Mikeblas 03:34, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

Kick in the Door

How exactly was Kick in the Door a diss to Jeru the Damaja? There actually was a few lines directed at Raekwon in that. For example, Raekwon in the song "Ice Water" off "Only Built 4 Cuban Linx..." said "To top it all off, beef with White (Frank White, Biggie's alias) Takin' bleach out, tryna throw it in my eyesight"

Then Biggie responds on Kick in the Door with "Fuck that, why try? Throw bleach in your eye"-- Tainted Drifter

He's best known as Biggie Smalls.

I already tried editing the page, but I can't agree with it how it says he's best known as The Notorious B.I.G. which I find totally false. No one says "Notorious B.I.G." everyone says "Biggie" or "Biggie Smalls."

-- Agreed. It should say something like "While his official artist name was The Notorious B.I.G. he is commonly referred to simply as Biggie among rap fans".

well actually rappers and big rap fans reffer to him as B.I.G —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.105.56.246 (talk • contribs)

-- The phrase "Known as" normally refers to a professional name or the name which is most commonly known to the general public, outside of any specific group (rap fans, Brooklyn residents, etc). Amazon.com and badboyonline.com both show Christopher's albums released using the name "Notorious B.I.G." so I would argue that the listing is correct for encyclopedic purposes. - Locker 23:52, 2 December 2006 (UTC)

His weight?

Not bagging him or anything, but at only 24 years of age, how did he get so big? On his songs he says things like "Remember when I used to eat sardines for dinner?" but sounds like he would have eaten a lot in his youth? Fortunately it wasn't a hindrance to his career but just wondering people's thoughts on this? R o gerthat ^Talk 13:36, 2 September 2006 (UTC)

Best Of All Time

The citing of a blog entry as proof that he was the best MC of all time is ridiculous. Thedoorhinge 02:55, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

Since no one disagrees, I'm removing it. If anyone can find a legitimate cite for it, by all means, replace it. Thedoorhinge 03:22, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

This has been reverted to once again cite a blog entry as proof he is best of all time. I'm not going to re-revert, but I would like to know why a blog entry is acceptible as a cite in this case. If no one is willing to even discuss it, but someone is none the less going to revert my carefully explained change, you are ignoring the 'rules' as it were. Thedoorhinge 17:16, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

The closest thing I can find to a "Top MCs" list that isn't simply one person's opinion on a blog or message board is MTVs list, on which BIG is #3: http://www.mtv.com/bands/h/hip_hop_week/2006/emcees/index9.jhtml Thedoorhinge 17:23, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

This is because at one time, the B.I.G. article had "the Source" top MC's list in which he was #1. Someone (obviously a Biggie hater) took it off, and unfortunely, the website has since been changed. Your right, a blog isnt the best way, but it is a fact that Biggie has been constantly ranked as the best MC. We just have to find a better source, I guess.

The whole debate is entirely opinional and there is no way of ever getting a non-biased outcome. If you based on the best selling solo rapper of all time it would be Tupac Shakur with 73 million worldwide

non-template template?

What's going on with the template box on the bottom? It's not a template, but it's got edit links like it was meant to be a template. -- Mikeblas 02:32, 13 September 2006 (UTC)

I managed to find it and fix. The article now references the template, and I fixed some of the things wrong in the template. -- Mikeblas 18:15, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

Active date

I would've thought that it's not possible for an artist to be active after they're dead. While IP owners might remix songs or find previously unreleased material that can be sampled and made into a new song, we don't say that the artist is active because of that. Many (most?) defunct acts do this anyway; Mobile Fidelity Sound Labs might remix old tapes to get a new version of an album and release it in their audiophile series, for example.

This issue seemed to have been settled in the past, but another editor has again changed the page to say that Biggie is "present"ly active. I've reverted this edit for the reasons given above. -- Mikeblas 20:26, 5 October 2006 (UTC)

Puffy Signed Biggie Before He Started Bad Boy

He was at Uptown/MCA. Oh, and, Heavy D was never on Bad Boy , to my knowledge, as this article claims. He was, however, on Uptown. Also, "Who Shot Ya" isn't on Ready to Die. 71.233.248.82 21:09, 5 October 2006 (UTC)

Heavy D signed with Bad Boy, but hasn't released anything on the label. source | Mr. Darcy talk 22:12, 5 October 2006 (UTC)

And the other point about Puffy and Biggie appears to be correct. From allmusic: "Thanks to the publicity, Biggie caught the attention of Uptown Records producer Sean "Puffy" Combs, who signed him immediately. With his new daughter in need of immediate financial support, Biggie kept dealing drugs for a short time until Combs found out and laid down the law. Not long after Biggie's signing, Combs split from Uptown to form his own label, Bad Boy, and took Biggie with him." [1] | Mr. Darcy talk 22:16, 5 October 2006 (UTC)

"After death - if he were alive" section

This whole section is speculative/OR, except for two facts (Biggie's claim that he didn't intend to record for much longer, and Jay-Z's relaunch of Brooklyn Mint). I suggest that we delete this section, moving those two facts to the Posthumous Career section. I'd like to get cites for both of those facts as well. Any objections? | Mr. Darcy talk 15:52, 6 October 2006 (UTC)

I'm all for it. This article is very poorly cited, and anything that helps improves it is great news, as far as I'm concerned. -- Mikeblas 18:17, 6 October 2006 (UTC)

Will do. Also, I just removed a sentence about Combs appearing on Super Cat's Don Dada album; the allmusic.com entry [2] doesn't include either Combs or B.I.G. on the credits page. If they appeared at all, it was uncredited, and we'd need a reliable third-party source to include it. I did put a cite next to the part about B.I.G. appearing on the Heavy D album Blue Funk. | Mr. Darcy talk 18:20, 6 October 2006 (UTC)

OK, I rewrote and cited the Brooklyn Mint section, but I'm having no luck on that 2003 XXL Magazine interview. If someone can provide the details, I'd be happy to put the citation in - at the least, I'd need the article's title, author, issue date, and maybe page #s if possible. | Mr. Darcy talk 18:40, 6 October 2006 (UTC)

In The Trivia Section, Where It References Kick In The Door, The Entry Is Erroneous & Incomplete. The Third Verse Is Not Aimed At Nas, But At Raekwon. The First Verse Is The One Aimed At Nas.

Ghostface & Raekwon may have subliminally dissed The Notorious B.I.G. in several songs, most notably on Only Built 4 Cuban Linx' "Shark Niggaz (Biters)" skit, where the pair make angry reference to use of Nas' cover art aesthetics (a portrait of the artist as a young child or infant). Nas refers to this episode in his song "Last Real Nigga Alive" (on God's Son), where he confirms the tensions between Raekwon and the Notorious B.I.G. while not explicitly referring to Ghostface as an involved party.

(Note: On "Ice Water" off of "Only Built 4 Cuban Linx..." Raekwon says "To top it all off, beef with White (Frank White - Biggie's alias)/pullin' bleach out, tryna throw it in my eyesight" Biggie then responds on "Kick in the Door" by saying "Fuck that, why try? Throw bleach in your eye")

Here's The Reference Link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ghostface_Killah

Best Selling hip-hop Album ever

I Think It Was Actully The Fugges The Score I Belive it sold 18 million —Preceding unsigned comment added by 209.66.42.98 (talk • contribs)

It was The 7 Day theory by 2pac which sold 28 million Pacaveli 00:11, 30 November 2006 (UTC)PacaveliPacaveli 00:11, 30 November 2006 (UTC)

Ye hes rite, i rememberin readin bout it, either that or Eminem Show, but i doubt it was that--68.38.64.234 04:27, 2 December 2006 (UTC)Ludacrillionam'ron XPac Unit Aftermath

Criminal History

Now I am a huge biggie fan and i think that we could expand his article more if we put in his criminal history. he had various drug charges and i think that we should put something more of his history. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.107.62.162 (talk • contribs)

If you have citations, please feel free to do so. -- Mikeblas 19:48, 26 October 2006 (UTC)

False reference in "Theories about his death section"

The sentence beginning with "Director Nick Broomfield and co-producer Dmitri Leybman have released" has been vandalized. If you see the credits on said documentary, you'll note that no co-producer goes by this name (this can be independently verified on imdb). This was added in by a student named Dmitri Leybman who's inserting himself into random articles in this fashion (other instances may be with "Dima" instead of Dmitri) as a protest against Wikipedia. Please remove references to his name in this article, and any others you may find.

South Park

The South Park episode is a parody of the Candy Man movies. The Bloody Mary and Beetlejuice references are only partially related. Can somebody with an account edit this please? 82.92.150.193 17:05, 27 December 2006 (UTC)