Talk:Surrey/Archive 1

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Having added lots of towns and village links in the form 'Placename, Surrey' I now need to go through them and find out which would be better off without the ', Surrey'. Better planning would have done this first! SGBailey 22:10 Dec 13, 2002 (UTC)

Is there a rule on this? Logically, it would only seem necessary to put the country after the town/village if there is another place of the same name elsewhere. One I know of is Hambledon (there are several of these in the UK). Jon


Education section: I'm sure Rosebery School does have a good academic record, but so do the others listed. Shouldn't this simply be a list of schools/links and their locations, with extra information restricted to their respective pages? I was going to delete the additional information beside Rosebery but felt a bit mean! JonC

Surrey is very posh, leafy and snobby RC

Quite right; what's a plebeian oik like you doing on this nice exclusive talk page? (Really, they let in anybody these days.) 81.159.255.24

What a lot of spelling errors! Excert? and Sherrif? I think the words requird are Excerpt and Sheriff. LC


Yes, the whole Timeline section needs tidying up, and preferably a linked section to itself. It contains details which are not relevant to Surrey, or which relate to a much wider area (eg: history of the Roman occupation of Britain as a whole). And yes, there are many typos. As for the more recent history, do we really need the name of every High Sheriff (note spelling) of Surrey, County Council Chairman, Chief Constable... When other years are added, it is going to go on forever. In fact this needs so much work, that it may take a team effort. Anyone feel like starting this?! JonC

I agree so much, and as a Surrey resident, have begun to do it. I have done my best at the first paragraphs and have revamped the "history" section myself with my own research (reference included at the bottom). There now needs to be someone who is more familiar with the history between 1066 - 1889 to add on to this some more detail. I have linked to the seperate "Earl's of Surrey" page to avoid inclusion of those details on this page. James Frankcom

Height of Leith Hill

I found three heights given for Leith Hill so I included all three. However, if someone has access to a topographic map of the area they might be able to supply a definitive measure. Please! Michael Glass (talk) 23:51, 7 January 2010 (UTC)

The Ordnance Survey has 294 m on its 1:50000 sheet 187 (1991 edition, ISBN 0319221873) and 965 ft on its 1:63360 of 1959. This would be the definitive source, wouldn't it?--Old Moonraker (talk) 07:32, 8 January 2010 (UTC)
The exact height of the benchmark on the tower, surveyed in 1972, is 293.8730 m AMSL. The cut is O.5 m off the ground, hence 293.4 m. Not what they put on their maps, but is the tower exactly at the highest point? [1]--Old Moonraker (talk) 13:16, 10 January 2010 (UTC)

I think it would be best to go with the Ordnance Survey of 1991, and cite that as the source of the information. Michael Glass (talk) 00:57, 11 January 2010 (UTC)

Authoritative source and easily verifiable—agree.--Old Moonraker (talk) 07:00, 11 January 2010 (UTC)
Jumped in and added this to Leith Hill, but retaining the source recently added there by User:Michael Glass. Will you make the change here? --Old Moonraker (talk) 10:32, 11 January 2010 (UTC)

Film and Books section

Given the literary connections which Surrey can claim (some examples in a second), it seems strange that many of the following are held to be less significant than the fact that the parents of the protagonist of Confessions of a Shopaholic hail from Oxshott. Some self promotional references (the producer of Most Haunted?) seem to have crept in as well. Some examples:

  • Aldous Huxley was born in Godalming and his remains are interred at Compton
  • William Cobbett was born in Farnham and is also buried there
  • Agatha Christie's famous "disappearance" occurred at Shere
  • Charles Dickens wrote part of the Pickwick Papers in Dorking, and references the town in the novel
  • Lewis Carroll died and is buried in Guildford
  • PG Wodehouse was born in Guildford
  • Tennyson spent the latter part of his life, and died, in Haslemere
  • Daniel Defoe was educated in Dorking. He references Surrey locations in his "Tour Through the Whole Island of Great Britain", and in the novel "A Journal of the Plague Year".
  • Arthur Conan Doyle wrote the Hound of the Baskervilles while living in Hindhead, and much of the story is set in the nearby countryside. He was also deputy lieutenant of Surrey
  • GB Shaw lived in Woking and later in Hindhead (where he wrote Caesar and Cleopatra)
  • EM Forster lived and wrote in Weybridge
  • Benjamin Disraeli wrote Conningsby while living in Dorking
  • George Meredith lived at Box Hill
  • JM Barrie lived in Tilford, and based "The Boy Castaways" (which later evolved into "Peter Pan") in the nearby countryside
  • John Donne lived and worked for much of his life in Pyrford. "Fear not for whom the bell tolls" is believed to refer to the bells of St. Nicholas' church, Pyrford.
  • Ada Lovelace (famous as the first programmer, but also daughter of Lord Byron) lived at Horsley
  • George Eliot wrote most of Middlemarch while living in Haslemere
  • John Galsworthy was born in Kingston and the Forsyte Saga is set in the area
  • Robert Browning was born in Camberwell (then part of Surrey)
  • Laurence Olivier was born in Dorking

Some less famous (but still more famous than the parents of the protagonist of Confessions of a Shopaholic, or the producer of Most Haunted):

  • poet Charlotte Turner Smith died in Farnham
  • poet Abraham Cowley (whom you'll find buried in Westminster Abbey, at Poets Corner) spent the latter part of his life, and died, in Chertsey
  • Polish poet Marian Hemar spent the latter part of his life, died and was buried in Dorking
  • Diarist John Evelyn was born at (and later returned to) Wootton

I can put this stuff (and more) in there, but not sure what level of detail (and how long a list) is appropriate for this level of article. Much of it can probably be found in articles on the various towns.

Shady18n (talk) 09:49, 5 August 2010 (UTC)

In length, detail and indeed form, your main list above looks pretty good. Just bang that into the article, with one or two tweaks. Defoe's "Tour" can go, since that is after all about the whole country, and maybe I'm missing something, but isn't The Hound of the Baskervilles set on Dartmoor and in London?. John Evelyn certainly rates a mention (and is, I'd say, more famous than at least a couple on your "more famous" list). Ada Lovelace and Laurence Olivier would be better split out into a separate section on other noteworthy people, eg. William of Occam, Thomas Malthus, Edwin Lutyens, Alan Turing. Zburh (talk) 14:27, 6 August 2010 (UTC)

The Saxon tribes and the sub-kingdom

Under this sub-heading it is recorded that Surrey became part of Wessex in 825 as a result of the Battle of Ashdown. This is certainly wrong since the Battle of Ashdown was in 871 and was the moment that Alfred the Great came to the fore in Anglo-Saxon history. The battle which took place in 825 was the Battle of Ellendun in which Alfred's grandfather, Ecgbert, defeated the king of Mercia. I lack the skills to alter the entry but editors may wish to emend the text. There is in fact a Wiki page for the Battle of Ellendun.

82.26.14.192 (talk) 06:22, 26 December 2011 (UTC)

Meaning of Sūþrīge

"The name Surrey is derived from Suthrige, meaning "southern region", and this may originate in its status as the southern half of the Middle Saxon territory"

"Region" for "rīge" is not translated correctly - Sūþrīge literally means "south reich". "Rīge" is a common Germanic word which later became "Reich" in standard German, a generic term for large territories like realm, kingdom = "Königreich" in German or empire = "Kaiserreich", also Third Reich). Also in all scandinavian languages "rīge" means "reich" = "kingdom" (cf. Sweden = Sverīge and Norway = Norge comes from "nord rīge").

--JFritsche (talk) 18:42, 22 October 2015 (UTC)

The etymology is not "suth-rige" but "suthri-ge", "ge" being an Old English word for a region or province, cognate with German "gau". Zburh (talk)

Geology

I feel that the new, vastly expanded geological sections are distinctly excessive, especially given their prominent location in the article. Very, very few of the people coming to this page are actually going to be looking for details of what was going on in the Paleogene era, an in-depth dissection of the varying degress of acidity in different parts of the county or a catalogue of spot-heights, but that is currently what will confront them, for paragraph after paragraph. Not only does this amount to acute informational overkill, the broad topographical outline which previously existed and which was probably the most widely pertinent part of the section has been fragmented and buried. I wrote most of the previous version of this part of the article and deliberately kept it to a brief summary, for the sake of clarity, proportionality with the rest of the article and accordance with its encyclopaedic purpose. I could have gone into greater depth, but chose not to so as not to get bogged down in recondite details of little interest to most users of such a general page, and I hold to the same view now.

I propose that the current exhaustive treatment be split into a separate article. Zburh (talk) 12:41, 7 October 2012 (UTC)

Soils

Agree with the above re. geology. Suggest truncating the soil details too. Most of the information is wrong. This is a county overview not Podology lecture. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 109.148.112.130 (talk) 20:57, 21 October 2012 (UTC)

defining Surrey...

Seen various entries in talk pages, even edit wars about what is and isn't Surrey. Sadly there is no simple definition. There's Surrey as in the current Local authority boundaries, Surrey as in Postal addresses, Surrey as various historical administration boundaries and so on In different contexts it can mean different things. So the real answer, for example to "is Worcester Park in Surrey" is "it depends..." I don't think you're going to get a single definition. 212.159.44.170 (talk) 18:39, 23 September 2013 (UTC)

I agree. I live in Croydon, which technically is a London Borough, but only the very northern parts have a London postcode. The postal address for the majority of Croydon is Surrey; as is the most of Bromley in Kent. --Nozzer71 (talk) 15:21, 23 October 2013 (UTC)
This isn't difficult. Surrey is a ceremonial county and a real county. Counties aren't in postal addresses (cf. Royal Mail's postcode finder). Croydon isn't technically a London borough; it is a London borough. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 90.221.123.139 (talk • contribs) 11:39, 3 January 2015 (UTC)
I'm afraid it is more complex than that, with the greatest respect. The area of the ceremonial county was defined (in law) in 1997. The area of what you perhaps erroneously describe as the 'real' county of Surrey is, you mean, the area controlled by Surrey County Council since Greater London was established in 1965. Now then, these two areas are the same in geographical terms but neither of them represents the historic county of Surrey, the shire, which existed from its creation during the Anglo-Saxon period and 1889 when the County of London was established. This area - which is the historic and traditional area of Surrey that lasted for nearly 1,000 years and what many people would describe as the 'real' Surrey - is quite different to the Surrey designed for administrative purposes that has existed since 1965 and which includes a substantial portion of Middlesex (the Spelthorne area). There is also the area used for postal purposes which includes large areas of what is now Greater London but were between 1889 and 1965 controlled by Surrey County Council - such as Kingston (KT), Suttom (SM) and Croydon (CR) postal areas. I think for the purposes of this article the area of the traditional county ought to be considered Surrey "proper" as this is an article about the county and not the area controlled, for the time being, by the County Council.Aetheling1125

I disagree. Definitions are definitions and it makes little sense to pretend that Croydon or Kingston is Surrey when they are clearly not. Postcodes are a separate issue and whilst this appears to bother those who live now in London in the southwest boroughs it doesn't have the same clout to other boroughs that were not London borough before. It's a semi romantic call back but it has no value in defining Surrey. Anything inside a London borough is just that, part of a London borough officially and statistically. Jjjez (talk) 19:32, 13 October 2017 (UTC)

Horley is in the Mole plain in the centre and south-east

This is nonsense. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 90.221.123.139 (talk • contribs) 11:38, 3 January 2015‎ (UTC)

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update

1. good line.

2. schedule is lagging.

check.

THE ASG. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 223.225.194.170 (talk) 15:34, 25 June 2017 (UTC)

The largest settlement in Surrey

The largest settlement in Surrey in Surrey is now Woking not Guildford. Perhaps this should be updated. Jjjez (talk) 19:26, 13 October 2017 (UTC)

County Town of Surrey?

An editor is asserting that Guilford is the historic county town of Surrey. I used to assume the same but Talk:Guildford/Archive 1#County Town discussion at the Guildford makes this look uncertain. I think the status quo version "popularly considered" is adaquate rather than making an assertion that is dubious and unnecesary.Charles (talk) 10:28, 20 December 2018 (UTC)

Agreed Murgatroyd49 (talk) 11:33, 21 December 2018 (UTC)

Border with East Sussex

As this has been back and forth a few times, I'd like to confirm that Surrey does border East Sussex, albeit for less than a mile. This is confirmed by checking any detailed map of administrative counties, such as OS or GBMaps. Therefore it should be listed as a bordering county. Win7sony (talk) 22:51, 11 November 2019 (UTC)

You are quite right, there is a very short border, doesn't show up on small scale maps. Murgatroyd49 (talk) 15:04, 12 November 2019 (UTC)
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