Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Chemicals

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WikiProject iconChemicals NA‑class
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Requested move for Alpha hydroxy acid[edit]

An editor has requested for Alpha hydroxy acid to be moved to another page. Since you had some involvement with Alpha hydroxy acid, you might want to participate in the move discussion (if you have not already done so).

The toxicity listing "coho salmon: LC50 = 95 ng/L" should be change to coho salmon: "LC50 = 0.095 micrograms/L" to be consistent with the units of other entries. Also, consider changing the mu symbol for micrograms to mcg as is used in the medical field as it is less likely to be confused with m = milli. Rgbutler (talk) 17:15, 8 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

All units now in μg/L. We use standard SI symbols. --Project Osprey (talk) 18:21, 8 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I'm not sure if the following sentence should really be in the article:

A synthetic route to the 6PPD-quinone has been posted on ChemRxiv.[1]

I was not able to find the (peer-reviewed) published version of that manuscript. --Leyo 13:26, 17 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Agreed ChemRxiv is a preprint server, nothing there passes our usual standard (arXiv itself fails Wikipedia:Reliable sources/Perennial sources). I'm sure there are peer reviewed routes by now.--Project Osprey (talk) 23:06, 23 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
So far I haven't found any. doi:10.1126/science.abo5785 mentions a commercial standard that has become available. --Leyo 14:44, 24 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

References

  1. ^ Agua, Alon; Stanton, Ryan; Pirrung, Michael (2021-02-04). "Preparation of 2-((4-Methylpentan-2-Yl)amino)-5-(Phenylamino)cyclohexa-2,5-Diene-1,4-Dione (6PPD-Quinone), an Environmental Hazard for Salmon" (PDF). ChemRxiv. doi:10.26434/chemrxiv.13698985.v1. S2CID 234062284.

 You are invited to join the discussion at Wikipedia:Village pump (proposals)#I have came up with new consistency in some articles of chemical compounds. Gain consensus from most other readers and helpful volunteers staying., which is within the scope of this WikiProject. DMacks (talk) 13:18, 29 November 2023 (UTC) DMacks (talk) 13:18, 29 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Resolved
Nothing at all. DMacks (talk) 01:12, 30 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Creation of missing chemical articles - importance[edit]

It doesn't seem immediately relevant to the worklist, but there are a lot of chemicals relevant to lab and industry that do not have articles yet. I asked about this in the teahouse since I didn't know where to go with it and was directed to the red links in List of insecticides, List of herbicides, and List of fungicides as a less overwhelming project than the huge scope of User:Graeme_Bartlett/missing_chemicals and one that is more likely to have a broader range of secondary sources. The list of missing chemicals directed me to Bromopentane from Amyl bromide, which has questionable usefulness compared to just creating articles for the few bromopentanes that exist and makes me wonder how many of these pseudo-disambiguation pages exist for different kinds of substituted alkanes... What approach should I take in cleaning up the missing chemicals, especially the simplersubstituted hydrocarbons? Reconrabbit (talk) 18:55, 29 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Indeed, "there are a lot of chemicals relevant to lab and industry that do not have articles yet". There are a also lot of chemicals relevant to lab and industry that do have articles. Where did these articles come from? The predicament is this: the project has grand scope, pretty high standards, but few regular editors. These editors must curate a hefty flux of edits. The same handful of editors then must choose between improving what we have or creating new articles. We are also constrained by "notability" and reliability. So my point is that if you are suggesting that the Chemistry project is imperfect and incomplete, we know but we are proud of what we've produced.
A good way for you to start is to give us some detail of what is needed. Yours imperfectly, --Smokefoot (talk) 23:41, 29 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I apologize - I'm very new to all of this and have been (and continue to be) massively impressed with the pages that are here and how far reaching the scope is. I am not a subject matter expert - I tend not to spend too much time in any particular lab in my profession - but I would like to contribute to the project with the tools available. Many of the articles in the worklist have since been improved significantly since they were first listed, and I'm just looking to be pointed somewhere to start, whether it's adding Chemdraw images to pages without them or filling out the red links on the list of inorganic compounds. Reconrabbit (talk) 01:19, 30 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
If you've just starting editing then I would suggest discreet small molecules to start with. They can be broken down into obvious sections (chembox, lead, synthesis, structure and properties, reactions etc) and cover all the key areas of editing. You could start from scratch or improve one of our stub articles - perhaps propyl gallate, that page is fairly basic but you've probably eaten some of it this week. I would stay clear of things like pesticides unless you have skills in understanding all of the toxicity issues, ditto medicines where we have very high standards for sources. We discourage people from citing their own work, but it is still good to start with what you know. Smokefoot is correct, our numbers are few, I would estimate the global pool of regular chem editors for the English language pages to be no more than 20. --Project Osprey (talk) 01:33, 30 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
There are several backlogged queues of requests for chemical diagrams. Someone with chemical knowledge and a copy of ChemDraw could make a bunch of contributions without having to dedicate a large amount of time to lit research or learning too many subtle details of WP writing. DMacks (talk) 19:22, 30 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I recall seeing that list of requested drawings but haven't been able to find it again. Do you have a link? It might be more helpful to start on the drawings that don't exist yet over the ones that just need to have a .SVG format. I previously had academic access to ChemDraw but don't know if it's still valid - using BIOVIA Draw right now. Reconrabbit (talk) 19:35, 30 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
They are tracked in several different places:
DMacks (talk) 19:48, 30 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
There are established guidelines for drawing chemicals, so in theory the drawing package shouldn't matter too much wikipedia:Manual of Style/Chemistry/Structure drawing--Project Osprey (talk) 22:14, 30 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Definitely true. Some are better/easier than others to actually implement that MOS. I only mentioned CD because it's one of the ones that's better at it (at a ridiculous cost!), and what Reconrabbit specifically mentioned in their original post. DMacks (talk) 22:29, 30 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
@Reconrabbit I use BIOVIA Draw all the time, with Inkscape to convert its .emf image exports to .svg format. Ping me to your Talk Page if you have any issues doing the drawings. Note that our MOS linked by Project Osprey recommends using ACS document settings. My efforts are on Commons here. Mike Turnbull (talk) 11:20, 1 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Time to deprecate/kill ChemID?[edit]

{{ChemID}} is a CASNo lookup in the ChemIDplus database, which just appears to be PubChem. There are only a few dozen transclusions (Special:WhatLinksHere/Template:ChemID), all the articles being "chemical" or "drug" articles that would have pubchem ID in the infobox as standard. The ChemID is instead (from spot-checking) listed in External links, and I don't see the value of highlighting that reference (or leading readers to think it's something other than pubchem). Should we get rid of these uses, and then kill the template?

@Leyo: who created it (but obviously anyone is welcome to contribute to discussion!). DMacks (talk) 02:49, 25 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

It's too bad that ChemIDplus was migrated into PubChem. In cases, where the template is just listed in the External links section, it may just be removed. However, it is also used as a reference to specific infobox values. In Hyaluronic_acid#cite_ref-ChemIDplus_1-0 for instance, the template could be replaced by a link to https://pubchem.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/compound/3084049#section=Acute-Effects&fullscreen=true that contains the same information as originally the ChemIDplus entry. --Leyo 22:32, 27 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I nuked the loose ExtLinks. DMacks (talk) 12:06, 30 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
All article-space fixed. DMacks (talk) 02:07, 1 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks. Unfortunately, there are many more, just without that template: Special:Search/insource:chemidplus --Leyo 19:38, 1 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Crikey, 162 in [mainspace articles alone:( DMacks (talk) 03:33, 2 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I know. I removed the (relatively few) occurrences in the External links section. --Leyo 20:29, 3 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Nomination for deletion of Template:ChemID[edit]

Template:ChemID has been nominated for deletion. You are invited to comment on the discussion at the entry on the Templates for discussion page. DMacks (talk) 13:31, 1 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Template:Alfa[edit]

This template also has a similar problem. The website is moved, and they have changed catalog numbers of chemicals. --Nucleus hydro elemon (talk) 07:40, 8 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

‎Category:Substances discovered in the 19th century[edit]

@1234qwer1234qwer4: Seems like questionable cat, in part because it will cover a lot of topics and in part because few really care. --Smokefoot (talk) 14:02, 25 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

cover a lot of topics can presumably be solved by subcategorisation, and few really care does not seem like a policy we have? What about the other categories like Category:Substances discovered in the 20th century etc., created in 2018 by @Leiem? 1234qwer1234qwer4 15:05, 25 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Seems a reasonable part of Category:Science by century. One could argue whether this is a defining characteristic of each substance. But it does seem like there is widespread (i.e., other fields of science) use of this overall tree, so I don't think chemistry should reject it on our own. If someone(s) care enough to maintain it, that's up to their use of their time. DMacks (talk) 05:42, 26 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

 You are invited to join the discussion at Talk:1,1'-Bis(diphenylphosphino)ferrocene#Requested move 4 January 2024, which is within the scope of this WikiProject. DMacks (talk) 19:43, 4 January 2024 (UTC) DMacks (talk) 19:43, 4 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

There is a requested move discussion at Talk:Mitomycin#Requested move 31 December 2023 that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. SkyWarrior 16:43, 7 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Maltodextrin[edit]

Maltodextrin is a topic likely difficult for the general reader to grasp readily, as the term refers to two different classes of food ingredient having the same name. Would appreciate chemistry editors giving this article a critical look with revisions as needed. Thanks. Zefr (talk) 19:37, 14 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

There is a requested move discussion at Talk:Unsymmetrical dimethylhydrazine#Requested move 13 February 2024 that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. Bensci54 (talk) 20:31, 21 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

New student pages[edit]

Students enrolled of the Massachusetts Institute of Technology WikiEd program are starting to publish new articles on organometallic compounds. On the plus side, we at least get a list these days, and they're mostly restricting themselves to distinct small molecules. On the other hand, most of the compounds appear to be wildly exotic. Project Osprey (talk) 23:51, 24 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I think Douglas Adams would call these mostly harmless. They are also likely to be mostly unread. Mike Turnbull (talk) 12:09, 25 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
These MIT-edited articles are now packed with minute details because that is their directive. One of the challenges to Wiki-chem, IMHO, is excess detail supported by numerous detailed references. For readers who seek an encyclopedic overview of a topic, such detail obscures the big picture. The MIT students used to add a lot of computational results, which are original research and should be removed.
There are other sets of homework assignments coming from UBC (undergrads!) and other schools. In none of these cases does the instructor have any track record of editing on Wikipedia. So, its the blind leading the blind. Yet, Wikipedia central (where ever that is) cheers on this crap. Oh well. --Smokefoot (talk) 14:42, 25 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Can we come up with a list of articles that we could ask them to write, something(s) that are notable? Graeme Bartlett (talk) 07:12, 26 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I've worked on list articles for fungicides, insecticides and herbicides, all with many redlinks which are virtually guaranteed to be notable. Not all need individual articles, since they fall into mode-of-action sets but that could be one place to point student editors. Mike Turnbull (talk) 14:33, 26 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I took a look at some articles produced under the same instructor's courses in the past - they're packed with sections based entirely off of primary research. I'm more concerned about the work on existing articles like phosphorus mononitride. Reconrabbit 22:09, 26 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Good for some, but our last class was organometallic chemistry; and an earlier one was main-group inorganics, so can we find anything in scope that is important? I suppose it could be to expand a section in an existing article.Graeme Bartlett (talk) 11:43, 27 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Found in taxon in infobox[edit]

Hi, s already tried some time ago, I think including "found in taxon" in the infobox would be valuable.

For more details:

https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Template_talk:Chembox#Relaunch_%22found_in_taxon%22 and

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Chemicals/Archive_2022#Add_a_%60found_in_taxon%60_statement_from_Wikidata_in_the_chemical_infobox AdrianoRutz (talk) 06:57, 27 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Writing articles about Sulfites[edit]

Hello WikiProject Chemicals! I'll save my introduction for another time, but anyways. I'm writing a draft on Cadmium sulfite, and as I write my first article regarding a chemical, cadmium sulfite is not a big deal in the world. It certainly is existent - I found a case of Cadmium being used to replace Tin foils and resulting in the creation of Cadmium sulfite.

The sulfites in general are not as widely written about as the Sulfates - just see their respective categories. Since some are more longer than others, and my article probably will not be as long, is there a guide, or a good reference, or convention for what articles regarding sulfite compounds should be like? And of course, how does mine look so far? ItzSwirlz (talk) 00:17, 29 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Welcome to Wikipedia-Chem Project and warm congratulations on endeavoring to write an article. I would abandon the draft on Cadmium sulfite and move on to other topics if you are determined to create articles. The writing, art, sources are substandard. I dont think that the compound is notable. Sulfites are far more obscure than sulfates, and for that reason they do not rise to the level of notability Wikipedia expects. Sorry for the negative views, but if I were to write something on video games, it would also be substandard. --Smokefoot (talk) 02:34, 29 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I somewhat echo Smokefoot...especially his welcome, but also his observation that this chemical does not seem to meet Wikipedia's general notability guideline to merit an article. It doesn't need to be a "big deal", but it does need to have multiple reliable sources cited. The detail you found--about toxicity via an interesting route of production and exposure--is not sufficient to make the chemical itself that notable. If you can find other details, such as niche uses, sentinel detection or as a marker for something, etc. I'd happily reconsider. We do have a (not that great) article on cadmium poisoning and of course an article on cadmium and all its modern and historical uses, so maybe your new detail could find a home in one of those? DMacks (talk) 03:07, 29 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]