Talk:Murder of Gwen Araujo

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Birth date[edit]

There's been some back-and-forth editing of the birth date, between "October 4" and "February 24", and I'm having trouble figuring out which date (if either!) is right. The cited obituary does say "February 24, 1985". OTOH, Tess deCarlo's Trans History (ISBN 1387846353), page 245, has "February 21st, 1985", while Lillian Faderman's Great Events from History: Gay, lesbian, bisexual, and transgender events, 1848-2006, page 696, has "February 4, 1985". Possibly the specific date is not necessary and we could just say "1985". -sche (talk) 18:35, 26 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Considering that no source says she was born on October 4, and it's coincidentally the same date she was killed, I think we can safely assume that the IP editor is confused and incorrect. If the sources conflict, but all agree on the month, there's no reason we can't say "February 1985". -Jason A. Quest (talk) 19:00, 26 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Why is there no mention of her birth name?[edit]

I know what it is but won't mention it here. Why is this information unavailable. Is this per Wiki policy? (166.155.87.202 (talk) 14:23, 14 April 2022 (UTC))[reply]

Addendum: I now I understand the deadnaming policy (166.155.87.202 (talk))

An edit war[edit]

Gwen's father Edward was previously called Edward Araujo Sr. on the page. Since his daughter is called Gwen, I removed the Sr. part - as Sr. of course means the subject's child is called that too - which isn't the case here. A user called JasonQuest reverted my edit and described it as nonsense. They didn't provide an actual explanation and were just rude, so I reverted my edit back and told them to be politer. They then reverted back and said Don't make Orwellian arguments. I want to prevent an edit war which is why I am discussing the issue here but it is clear that this user has no intention of discussing this constructively - or editing the page constructively - and instead just wants to hurl insults. 92.10.13.209 (talk) 14:33, 2 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

(I've been editing this article constructively for years.) The notion that Gwen Araujo was never named anything else is objectively false. She was originally named after her father – a fundamentally important part of her story – which is why her father legally became "Sr." after she was born. This isn't deadnaming her; it's acknowledging the name that he called himself. Jason A. Quest (talk) 15:09, 2 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Firstly, please spell her name correctly. It's Araujo, not Arujo.

Whether you've been making constructive edits for years or not is irrelevant when you insulted me just now by accusing me of making 'Orwellian' arguments, and are currently trying to not edit the article constructively. And I never said she wasn't assigned anything otherwise. However - in accordance with MOS:IDENTITY - she was not notable before she was murdered, which is the subject of the article. Her name is Gwen - which voids the Sr. in Edward's name - just as Gwen's assigned name did the opposite. 92.10.13.209 (talk) 15:23, 2 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

(Apologies for the typo; corrected. Now please check your own comments for name errors.)

WP policy about her name doesn't create an alternate universe in which her father never changed his. And if we respect her right to name herself, we can't take that same right from him. Jason A. Quest (talk) 16:15, 2 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I didn't create an alternate scenario in which her father never changed his name. He changed his name to Edward Sr. However, after Gwen corrected her name - his name was not Edward Sr anymore - since he did not have a child with that name. 92.10.13.209 (talk) 17:03, 2 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

If he changed his name to "Edward Sr." (or to anything at all), Wikipedia does not have the authority to change it back later, regardless of the attempted justification. This should be obvious. Jason A. Quest (talk) 21:12, 2 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Please don't patronize me by saying "this should be obvious", I've warned you about being rude before wrt your 'Orwellian' accusation. And this is not Wikipedia's authority - linguistically, if he does not have a child named Edward - then he is not Edward Sr. This has nothing to do with Wikipedia, it's just his name. 92.10.13.209 (talk) 06:49, 3 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I believe that names are a matter of personal choice. I'm disappointed that you won't respect that. Jason A. Quest (talk) 14:25, 3 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@JasonAQuest: Agree.