Talk:Dinghy sailing

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I would like to add a class, could somebody tell me how? I would like to add a link to the types box and create the class page similar to the layout of the laser class. Thanks in advance. --Superspost 15:33, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

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I think the stuff which has gathered here about dinghy raacing is getting to the quantity thatwe perhaps should think about a separate aarticle called Dinghy Racing.We coould move the material from here if relevant to that new page, and give it some tidying up and a general intro. Also would need a link back to this page obviously. Anyone have any strong views on this?

TonyClarke 14:01, 22 Mar 2004 (UTC)

I agree that a separate section for dinghy racing would be a good idea. Indeed, there is a significant difference between recreational dinghy sailing and competitive (or even not so competitive) racing. On a side note, I assume you sail/race Tony? What class(es)? k-links 9:53 AM, 22 Mar 2004

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HI k-links, yes I sail, family life permitting. I have a very old Lark, great design, good fun, and I have sailed a Buzz at our dinghy club, I do instruction for the club. I'm a latecomer to sailing, but have definitely caught the bug! Thanks for your comments, I'll try to work on this, what do you sail?

TonyClarke 14:58, 24 Mar 2004 (UTC)

I'm mostly a Laser sailor myself, though I've played with Albacores and Laser IIs over the years. I'm really looking forward to getting myself into a 29er, when time and budget permits. Oh, and about the Dinghy Racing redirect, I think you can just go to Dinghy Racing, and when redirected to the Dinghy Sailing page, click the Dinghy Racing link at the top of the page where it says "redirected from". You should be able to edit the page from there.

K-links 15:46, 26 Mar 2004 (UTC)

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I feel like this article could be linked to sloop or sail plan, or some of the other existing sailing pages, but I'm not expert enough to know the proper relationship in sailing terms. Also, is there some terminology discrepency between UK and US; I never hear people talking about dinghy sailing in California; to us a dinghy is a rowboat. But maybe it's because I'm not that hardcore a sailor. --Chinasaur

One term often used in the US for a small bermuda rigged sailboat is a catboat. And, in terms of linking, yeah I just meant it would be nice to try to connect this article more with the other stuff already collected in the category. I was surprised to discover this article because I thought I had a handle on most of the recreational sailing articles on the WP. I think the Atlantic Divide is part of the split in the groups of editors. --Chinasaur 02:16, 29 Aug 2004 (UTC)

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I'm not sure what you mean by linked, proably some links in the text to those other topics would be beneficial. I did a fair bit of work to try to collect the sailing articles into one category, if you find any more please categorise! Re terminology, I wasn't aware of the discrepancy, but definitely it is a separate area of sailing common to Europe and America, and widely known as Dinghy sailing in Europe. Perhaps an insert in the article somewhere to mention the US name, if anyone knows more?

TonyClarke 12:49, 26 Aug 2004 (UTC)

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The definitions at the head of the article mention centreboard and rudder. Uffa Fox's Flying Fifteen, mentioned later, has fixed keel and rudder. Is this inconsistency important? Greg Barrington

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I've moved the above comment here to the foot of the page, which is how new entries are usually made. Also, people usually sign off by entering the symbol '~' three times, which usually prints their user name (if they have registered and logged on), and the time and date of the entry.

In answer, I suppose it is consistent with the definition, since the definition only says that these are used, not that they are movable.(but surely the rudder is always movable?)

However, in most dinghies they are movable, and the FF is getting towards being a keelbaot rather than a dinghy. There are shades of grey here, it is interesting that in America and most other countries I think, the word 'dinghy ' is not used, so that the term 'small boat sailing' would cover both FFs and e.g. Lasers.

TonyClarke 15:50, 30 Dec 2004 (UTC)

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quest for speed, sailing faster than wind speed

This doesn't seem to make any sense. A sailboat can sail faster than the windspeed has nothing to do with aparent wind. Apparent wind is the wind the skipper feels while moving in a sailboat. The hull speed is a function of the forces acting on the sail, which include the the Bernulli (spelling) principal and the mass of the diverted air.

Superspost 15:33, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

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Hi! I took the liberty of signing your post for you...

While you're right that apparent wind is not absolutely necessary for going faster than the wind, it sure helps, in my experience. More wind is more wind, no matter whether it's apparent or not. When the sails have extra (apparent) wind, this allows you to sheet the sails in more, or point lower, if you're trying to run downwind. In light-air sailing (I usually sail on Lake Tahoe, which rarely has heavy winds), it is my opinion that apparent wind is absolutely crucial.

Also, once a land-sailor has accelerated, they can sail a beam-reach with the sail brought in close-hauled, because the apparent wind is 3 times the actual wind speed. It's an incredible experience. Without apparent wind, I don't think they would go nearly so fast.

Infinoid 22:47, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

apparent wind is the vector sum of true wind velocity (relative to the water surface) plus the inverse of boat velocity (N.B. velocity is a combination of speed - i.e. magnitude - plus direction). increasing boat speed only increases the second component of this, which is a headwind. more headwind cannot be used to increase forward boatspeed. in performance sailing (i.e. once the apparent wind goes forward of abeam), the *only* component of the wind a sailboat has available to convert to forward force is the component perpendicular to it's direction of travel, and that quantity does not change with boatspeed. period. increasing apparent wind is an effect, not a cause, of increasing boatspeed.

if anything, increasing apparent wind moves the incoming wind direction forward, eventually making it harder to convert the perpendicular component to usable force, and imposing a practical limit on speed. a near-limiting case demonstrating this can be seen in iceboats, where hull drag is essentially zero (compared to liquid-water hulls) and speeds of three or four times true windspeed are possible: it was found maybe a hundred years ago tha increasing sail on iceboats caused them to go *slower*. the reason was that the issue at high speeds is *efficiency* because the apparent wind is so far forward.

oh yeah, the "bernoulli effect" is also just that, an effect, and not a cause; it has nothing to do with making a sailboat go forward.

brian carcich bcarcich@twcny.rr.com

24.59.125.201 14:02, 22 May 2007 (UTC)

"Important Essentials"

Ok, I'm seeing a minor dispute between User:Ctu2485 and User:00studet, over the phrase "these are the five essentials of dinghy sailing." One will add the word "important" before "essentials", the other will revert it. There are currently 5 entries in the page history over this.

I would like to suggest "important points", as a compromise. I will go ahead and make this edit; if it is not to your satisfaction, please discuss it here. Infinoid 15:17, 1 December 2006 (UTC)

"The Five Essentials" is a commonly used phrase used when describing the essential points of sailing, particularly when teaching. If they are to be mentioned in the article (which seems sensible), then they should probably be referred to as "The Five Essentials" to keep the article consistent with other material (such as the RYA teaching material).

Also I'm not really sure why the five essentials links to the Sail article, as the sail is only 1 of the five essentials. --Kragen2uk (talk) 07:42, 11 January 2011 (UTC)

Sailing re-organization effort

Take a minute to read the comments at Talk:Sailing#Re-write effort -- non how-to et seq. Some of us are working on re-organizing the sailing-related articles. See if you agree with our approach and give us some help. Mrees1997 19:33, 29 December 2006 (UTC)

Jet 14 as High--Performance? Maybe someone meant International 14?

Jet 14s do not have trapezes, and do not plane upwind, if memory serves.

brian carcich bcarcich@twcny.rr.com

24.59.125.201 14:01, 22 May 2007 (UTC)

Planing and Trapezing Section

Trapezing

Hi, I'm wondering whether the "Planing and trapezing" section might include a brief blurb about continuous trapeze systems. I've used them quite a bit, because they are in common use in the Flying Dutchman class.

However, my google searches have indicated that they're unique to this class - the only hits I see are either about the FD, or prohibiting continuous trapeze systems in the bylaws of other dinghy classes. (Well, and one article on a 505 site including them in a list of things that sound neat but don't work very well.)

Is the system worth a comment? Should it go here, or in the (currently nonexistent) Flying Dutchman (dinghy) page? Or on the Trapeze page, which isn't linked to from here?

Infinoid 18:56, 19 Dec 2004 (UTC)

The American mag Yachting in 1928 had an article about Malaysian Racing Canoes. They had a device called a Tali Dogang. "From the mainmast, just above the forestay, the Tali Dogang is made fast and kept from slip[ing sown by a wooden peg. This Tali Dogang consistes of a length of manila rope, one inch in circumference, that passes through the bridle in which the son [crew] sits. I can e adjusted to any length to suit and made fast. The bridle is madeof stout canvas doubles, two inches in width, with an eyelet at either end. Now this makes a most comfortable if precarious seat, and with feet on the gunwhale the live ballast sways out and in as the boat heels to varying weights of the wind... 212.159.44.170 (talk) 20:40, 1 March 2016 (UTC)

Planing

Currently first recorded planing boat is a racing sailing Canoe from about 1890, see http://www.intcanoe.org/en/ichistory1850.php. This may even predate planing motorcraft. 212.159.44.170 (talk) 20:40, 1 March 2016 (UTC)

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Skiffs vs High performance dinghies

Skiffs are usually classed as High performance dinghies. What is the difference? For noobs both descriptions read the same. It' needs to be expanded and explained better. 213.149.61.151 (talk) 23:49, 21 February 2019 (UTC)