Talk:Ska-P

Untitled

someone care to make an Operación Triunfo page? eh? Lockeownzj00 21:43, 18 Jun 2004 (UTC)

neutrality of the article

theres clearly examples of opinion in this article, so tell me what you think of the edits im going to make

p.s ive never heard of this band im just making the article itself less POV

This article has been demonstrating few neutrality on what regards the bands political views. Although the position is not clear the writer(s) appears to be against these leftist ideas, specially because the article sticks to the point of them and who are against them. Sumarizing, I don't believe the article is neutral. What do you guys think? --El Chemaniaco 20:57, 26 November 2005 (UTC)

"others do not appreciate all or any of the opinions that the band has in their music, and largest part just enjoys the diversive" I agree, too partial , at least we must eliminate this line. -Stontu

What the hell?

Why did you cut out the descriptions for each song? I wrote these and I am offended. I would NEVER do this for any other band except a political one. I wrote about the songs because they are relevant. PLEASE return them to their former state or I will. If neutrality is an issue, we can compromise. Lockeownzj00 21:56, 6 Oct 2004 (UTC)

I think its just that theyre sorta redundant and they outweighed the article in length, especially considering their importance. For example, one theme like marijuana had descriptions of many songs about it--to give people an idea it only takes one. Also, i think it might make sense to talk about the songs one by one and link them. Please dont edit right away before we discuss? Urthogie

I'm not stupid enough to do things without discussion first.

Anyway.

What do you mean? Have a seperate page for each song? That's too much.

Like I said: the political nature of the band is what caused me to write the articles. I see waht you mean about how they only need one marijuana song to see their stance on marijuana, but each deals with it differently, and it also affects how the reader thinks about the band. If they see the 3rd marijuana description, they're going to think, "wow, this band is REALLY strong on marijuana!" I don't want to summarise what every song says because despite a similar message, I cant just summarise all the atheists songs with "fuck god" and I can't just summarise all the socialistic songs with "fuck capitalism." Lockeownzj00 01:27, 7 Oct 2004 (UTC)

You're right to say that adding a page for each song is probably a bad idea. But if we are gonna give descriptions of the songs, we shouldn't give 3 on 1 theme like marijuana-why not just say, this song is about what they think about weed, and they also have many other songs on the subject. I'd say that the song descriptions should never cover a given theme once. Could you reply to this message with a list of the songs you want to cover and what themes they cover? Urthogie 12:50, 7 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Hello,

I personally think the song descriptions were greats to give a good overview at was Ska-P is. As I don't understand spanish at all, it gave me a lot of knowledge about the band that I am now able to share.

Maybe we can make an article per album and include the song descriptions on each albums. Each album probably have a general theme which make it different of each album ?

Hashar 11:28, 9 Oct 2004 (UTC)

That is a good idea Hashar--we could keep the descriptions, only on the album pages instead of the main. "Notable songs," I suppose. I'm willing to do that. Although, every album has different songs on it, rarely with one common theme. Urthogie? What do you think? Lockeownzj00 13:29, 9 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Sounds good to me. Make sure the album pages are more than a list of songs and that'd be great. Also it'd be completely ok to highlight a few songs on the Ska-P page. Urthogie 22:39, 9 Oct 2004 (UTC)

These guys have actual names, you know.

Naval Xixón

Hi, plese could anybody tell me something about the riots or demonstrations which this song relates to? Thanks.

Google Song Meanings Blckhawk1234 (talk) 20:03, 2 March 2010 (UTC)

External links

Instead of the explanation of all these songs, why not adding a website, in the external links, where it traduce them? Those who don't understand spanish will be able to and will interpret by themself the lyrics...Or you can put some explanations, of the most representative songs in this page and also apply my idea... Do what you want to do, but if you don't add a website where it traduces lyrics, these wikipage will be really incomplete and not enough usefull for the strong majority who don't speak spanish.

It's pretty hard to turn up even a well-done transcription of the Spanish, never mind a competent translation. Anyway, song lyrics translated from Spanish would either lose a lot of the message or just seem stupid because they'd have no meter or rhyme. —Casey J. Morris 22:25, 4 June 2006 (UTC)

translating lyrics

I would tend to disagree about the difficulties regarding translating Ska-P lyrics. Their lyrics are very clear and to-the-point, they don't precisely beat about the bush, do they? As for any puns or other plays on words, a simple explanation would suffice. I really like the idea of translating this stuff as a wiki thing - i.e., everyone adding his/her own shades of meaning to the ongoing translation. Moreover, I personally feel that we owe it to them to spread the word!

Can't make up my mind about the best place to do so, but there are loads of pages dedicated to individual songs - does anyone know what the official wiki procedure is? But I reckon a page for each album, with a tracklist and a brief synopsis of each, which over time could be extended to include the full translation of the lyrics.

Looking forward to feedback. ¡Seguimos en pie! 83.180.191.69 23:29, 24 November 2006 (UTC) This should illustrate what I mean:

1 y 2, es tu religión, 3 y 4, tu alma ya está a salvo

5 y 6, silencio a lo que veis, 7 y 8, Lágrimas y Gozos

1, 2, it's your religion 3,4, your soul is already saved 5,6, don't tell anyone what you see 7, 8, tears and joys

the meaning is clear enough but there's little reason to read it in translation Casey J. Morris (talk) 00:14, 9 January 2009 (UTC)

chatting on this talk page

While I agree with the broad wiki policy of not converting these pages into general chats, I think we can be bit more flexible when it comes to explaining finer points relating to article content. So, in answer to the question of what the Xixón song is about: Gijón, to give its Spanish name, is an important town on the north coast of Spain, and was, certainly in the 60s and 70s, one of the country's most important shipyards. Successive attempts to restructure the industry in the region have led to the local population, already hard hit by restructuring in the coal industry, taking to the streets in their (tens of?) thousands. With the corresponding reaction from the authorities. Which is what the song is all about. If you go to the corresponding wiki page Gijón you'll get a nice touristy version (which makes f-all reference to the shipyards!). Ska-P does it again! 83.191.55.91 21:54, 26 November 2006 (UTC)

song synopsis

See a reference to someone deleting someone else's song descriptions, so in order not to enter into any kind of wikifight, I have started a draft synopsis for each song on the corresponding talk page of each album, rather than within the article itself, pending a clear and unanimous wiki decision on this mattter. In the case of Ska-P, as opposed to many other performers, groups, etc., the lyrics are central to their very reason for being and should, in my opinion, be made available in some form or another, to those people who are not Spanish-speaking. 83.191.85.245 10:39, 28 November 2006 (UTC)

neutrality issues - again

will delete the reference to hypocritical lyrics. Whether one agrees or not with the lyrics is irrelevant. Wikipedia does not have opinions. The only legitimate place for us to express our opinions is on the talk page. 193.27.9.131 12:00, 30 November 2006 (UTC)

proposal

Further to having started a song synopsis for each album (please contribute), I would like to propose deleting the song list on this article page. Kinda takes up a lot of space and seems irrelevant unless linked to an album. The links to each album (with the corresponding track synopsis) I reckon suffice. PS. I wish I could have seen Lockeownz' descriptions for each song. Propose that when things get deleted, they get transferred to the talk page as an unofficial reference. 83.191.75.5 22:47, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

re: above proposal and others

1. I see that someone has, once again (and anonymously) deleted text from the article page, without giving any reasons or without pasting the deleted text on this page (as per my humble suggestion) for others to see what was supposedly so objectionable.

2. As regards the translation of lyrics mentioned above somewhere, I requested guidelines from other Wikipedia editors and the opinion was unanimous that it is not possible for copyright reasons (it is acceptable to quote directly a line or two).

3. My request for information did not include the possibility of the song synopsis, but as one editor pointed out, original research is not part of Wikipedia, and I suppose song synopsis would come under that category. On the other hand, maybe the original research reference only refers to content on the article page and not on the discussion page. Does anyone know? Technopat 11:46, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

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political categorization

I don't think there's a point in qualifying the band as "almost" anarchist. They have expressed clear anarchist views in many songs, so I think the word "almost" is unnecessary and confusing. At least as far as their music is concerned, they are anarchist, period. What do you think? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 151.57.87.175 (talk) 19:08, 16 October 2007 (UTC)

Totally agree. The lyrics to "España va bien" from Eurosis (1998) are a clear case in point:

"...Queremos igualdad en anarkia y fraternidad. / A la tumba de Durruti nos vamos a emborrachar / buscando la manera de poder resucitar / Ideas anarquistas que le entreguen al pueblo el poder..."

--Technopat 20:27, 16 October 2007 (UTC)

I've heard about half of their songs, (mostly the newer stuff) and until I read the above quote I had never heard them say anything about anarchism. I don't think it's a prominent theme in their music; topics such as equality, anti-racism, anti-militarism, anti-facism and general freedom seem to be the focus. Again, I haven't heard all their songs, but I don't think they ever directly call for the downfall of government. Wikipedia's description of anarchism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anarchism)would require them to "reject compulsory government (the state) and support its elimination" in order to be categorized as anarchists.

I would also be more precise about their stance on anti-Zionism.

"Because anti-Zionism and antisemitism may be associated, and as both terms can mean different things to different people, the relationship between the two is controversial."

(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Zionism)

It would be better to say that they are Pro-Palestinian or that they are politically opposed to the actions the Israeli government in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.

I also suggest that the page be updated to reflect the band getting back together. See their homepage for the official word.

-CS

206.55.189.90 (talk) 00:49, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

Additionally, their frontman explicitly said that he wasn't against democracy. He was for a true democracy, not the shit that big companies are trying to sell to us". An anarchist who supports democracy seems a little contradictory. I suggest not making any mention of anarchism in the article.

History

I forgot to log in but hey I translated the Spanish page's "History" section for this page. Hope it's helpful. Casey J. Morris (talk) 23:26, 8 January 2009 (UTC)

So I also added the "controversies" section which in and of itself might be controversial but I think it's worth including. Casey J. Morris (talk) 23:54, 8 January 2009 (UTC)

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controversies?

the last controversy regarding an alleged "contrast" between anarchy and support of Chavez's goverment cannot be considered a real controversy. In fact, although to some people it may seem so, in the Spanish (and also Italian, Mediterranean, ecc) social and political culture, anarchy and socialism are pretty related and close each other for their stances in favour of people, independence, opposition to imperialism, capitalism, ecc... As you can see, in the already quoted song España va bién they say: "...Queremos igualdad en anarkia y fraternidad. / A la tumba de Durruti nos vamos a emborrachar / buscando la manera de poder resucitar / Ideas anarquistas que le entreguen al pueblo el poder...", combining anarchy and socialist-marxist values. This is also due to the fact that during the Spanish civil war anarchist unions (POUM) were side by side with socialists and communists (although with the latter conflicts insurged later) in fighting against Franco's troops. Chavez is therefore seen as liberator after years of dictatorship, neoliberalism and invasive American foreign policies in the country. So, even if to a non-Spanish (or non-Italian) reader/editor this can seem a controversy, it is actually NOT, once given the social, political, cultural background. I would remove it if there are no disagreements.--Desyman44 (talk) 16:15, 7 May 2009 (UTC)

Just FYI that part was entirely from the Spanish version of the page Casey J. Morris (talk) 04:02, 19 May 2009 (UTC)

Yes, but how do you know the person who wrote it is spanish? Anyway the non-existence of controversy comes also from the fact that in several interviews they declared to be very left-wing. So I do not see why it should be such a strange thing they support Chavez.--Desyman44 (talk) 20:15, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

I'm not really married to the idea; I just translated the article for kicks. Nevertheless, I would imagine it's because whatever you might think of Chávez he is not an anarchist and so you can see how someone would see that as a departure for the band that recorded songs explicitly endorsing anarchy. The larger point, I think, is that a lot of people are suspicious that Ska-P's political views are more calculated to make a buck than sincere. Casey J. Morris (talk) 02:54, 29 May 2009 (UTC)

I think you don't conseder carefully Ska-p political stance. They are anarchist, sure, but also socialist/radical left. They declared it in many interviews. So there's no contradiction in their support to bolivarian revolution principles, as you can read on their official web site. Their position is very clear, there's no "departure". Since their very first songs in madrid they always took the side of workers class and supported revolution and resistance (the cultural context is the one of spanish civil war, where left leaning anarchist-POUM-fought -at least in the beginning-together with communist partisans). The only controversy you can find is between their support to Chavez as symbol of bolivarian revolution and his actual populist behavior.--Desyman44 (talk) 00:47, 25 December 2009 (UTC)

The sentence has also been removed from spanish wiki, as you can see here, where it's provided the interview with Ska-p in Caracas, where they explain why there's no contradiction: «we consider ourselves anarchist sympathizers... but, as Chomsky considers himself, a libertarian socialist, this is our position(?), to unite the lefts to win against our common enemy, the neoliberal capitalism»--Desyman44 (talk) 00:55, 25 December 2009 (UTC)

Anarcho-Punks?

I don't want to go into a debate whethere this band qualifies as anarchist or not. This is already debated here and Wikipedia pretty muchs categorizes anybody who self-proclaims to be something. But.. Anarcho-Punk? No way... anybody has anything to say before i remove them from the Category:Anarcho-punk groups --Elefectoborde (talk) 01:09, 4 August 2010 (UTC)

Major Label

Shouldn't it be pointed out more clearly, that by all "anarchism", "anti-establishmentarism" and "nonconformity", they are still on a major label ? It is mentioned in the infobox, but in my opinion, i should get mention in the article itself too, because it leads their political views a little bit ad absurdum. 84.134.52.124 (talk) 04:11, 25 January 2011 (UTC)

They also are pro copyright, it was really unexpected for me. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 189.200.209.2 (talk) 22:07, 18 April 2011 (UTC)

New album

May an admin please remove the forwarding from 99% (Ska-P album)? I would do an article about the new album, to be found in my name space ([User:Saemikneu/99_(Ska-P_album)]. Saemikneu (talk) 23:19, 30 May 2013 (UTC)

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