Talk:Leopold Trepper

This article is within the scope of WikiProject Biography, a collaborative effort to create, develop and organize Wikipedia's articles about people. All interested editors are invited to join the project and contribute to the discussion. For instructions on how to use this banner, please refer to the documentation.BiographyWikipedia:WikiProject BiographyTemplate:WikiProject Biographybiography articles

France Low‑importance

	France portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject France, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of France on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.FranceWikipedia:WikiProject FranceTemplate:WikiProject FranceFrance articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

Soviet Union Low‑importance

	Soviet Union portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Soviet Union, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics (USSR) on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Soviet UnionWikipedia:WikiProject Soviet UnionTemplate:WikiProject Soviet UnionSoviet Union articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

Espionage High‑importance

	Leopold Trepper is within the scope of WikiProject Espionage, which aims to improve Wikipedia's coverage of espionage, intelligence, and related topics. If you would like to participate, visit the project page, or contribute to the discussion.EspionageWikipedia:WikiProject EspionageTemplate:WikiProject EspionageEspionage articles
High	This article has been rated as High-importance on the project's importance scale.

Socialism

	Socialism portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Socialism, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of socialism on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.SocialismWikipedia:WikiProject SocialismTemplate:WikiProject Socialismsocialism articles
???	This article has not yet received a rating on the project's importance scale.

Untitled[edit]

Transferred this comment from the page: - Nilmerg 10:06, 2 Apr 2004 (UTC)

This article needs supporting documents. It makes serious charges against Trepper, such as "He escaped the Stalinist purges with KGB support." and "Germany forced him to betray most of his contacts. They tried to run him as a double agent in Paris but NKVD eventually figured out that he had been turned." Trepper won a judgement against the head of French counterintelligence, Jean Rochet, for similar charges. Trepper has also been slandered by former Nazi officials. No doubt other Western intelligence agencies would like to see him discredited, and perhaps even some in the former Soviet Union as well. Perhaps the author of this article can explain him [her] self.

---

Most of this article seems to be a straight quote from : http://leopold-trepper.biography.ms/ But it has some major innaccuracies. I will try to correct them later.

The page in question is a Wikipedia mirror - it is a copy of this page - Skysmith 14:07, 18 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Betraying???? Turned????[edit]

I'm very shocked reading the following statement: "Germany forced him to betray most of his contacts. They tried to run him as a double agent in Paris but NKVD eventually figured out that he had been turned." It seems to follow the old 50's and 60's black legend against this outstanding anti-nazi spy, leader of the most important soviet spy ring in occupied Europe and Germany. You should read the in-deep work by Gilles Perrault: The Red Orchestra (L'Orchestre Rouge). Being captured by the nazi counterintelligence, Trepper continued fighting against nazis from prision performing a double-game against them, destroying the german intoxication operation against soviet intelligence services, the Great Game, a diplomatic and intelligence german attemp to broke the British/U.S.-Soviet Union alliance. Eventually he escaped and fully alerted Moscu about the Great Game.

I think this a serious issue. This man represents dozens of members from the Red Orchestra, people from many nationalities, from many ideologies, who fighted with outstanding heroism against the nazism, many of them beign tortured and executed.

H.Sokol

Please sign your entries with "~~~~" and cite your sources - Skysmith 14:13, 18 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]

- The young man in Denmark in 1973 that Trepper referred to, was the journalist Jakob Andersen. During that occasion and earlier and later meetings between those two, Trepper claimed he never betrayed anyone from his ring. However he was later victim of the progrom in Poland in the 1970'ies where jews once again had to suffer only for being jews - JensAlstrup - January 8, 2011

- - Does anyone keep count on how many "most important spies" wikipedia has promulgated? Sure Trepper is one of dozens of people carrying the title "most important spy". How very encyclopedic that is! 91.60.152.182 (talk) 12:48, 6 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Belgium 1938[edit]

"In 1938 Trepper was sent to organize and coordinate an intelligence network in Nazi-occupied Europe, based in Belgium." But there was no occupation of Belgium until 1940. Grant | Talk 14:33, 6 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

WikiProject class rating[edit]

This article was automatically assessed because at least one WikiProject had rated the article as start, and the rating on other projects was brought up to start class. BetacommandBot 14:29, 10 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Trip out of Poland[edit]

To begin: I cannot substantiate this discussion. He left Poland traveling through Denmark. Denmark at first refused his entry. I personally had dinner with the Danish ambassader to Poland approximately one week prior to the Danish government giving him (Trepper) permission to enter Denmark. The ambassader said, "Why should we assist him? He made a pact with the devil (meaning Stalin)". I believe I convinced him otherwise. Denma15:45, 22 January 2008 (UTC)Azzoy (talk)rk allowed him entry two days later.

Another source?[edit]

I’ll have to double check if it’s an independent source, but Trepper is also mentioned/discussed in chapter 13 ("Rhapsody in Red") of Burn after Reading: the Espionage History of World War II (Farago, Ladislas). Schissel | Sound the Note! 22:10, 6 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Current Work[edit]

Perraukt p.285 Capture
Perrault p.186 Summer 1944 Simexco and running costs.
perrault 168. Opening of Simex
perrault 352. Talking to Giering.

Old text[edit]

In 1938, Trepper was sent to organize and coordinate an intelligence network in Nazi-occupied Europe, based in Belgium. The Gestapo named it the Red Orchestra (Die Rote Kapelle). Prior to the German attack on the Soviet Union, he sent information about German troop transfers from other fronts for Operation Barbarossa through a Soviet military attaché in Vichy France. Eventually, the Gestapo uncovered the network and Trepper fled to France.

In France, Trepper established another network, but eventually the Abwehr tracked him down.

Betrayal[edit]

p.110 of Kesaris. Who he betrayed. scope_creep^Talk 09:35, 20 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Epilogue from his own book. COI[edit]

In the epilogue to The Great Game, Trepper wrote,

I do not regret the commitment of my youth, I do not regret the paths I have taken. In Denmark, in the fall of 1973, a young man asked me in a public meeting, "Haven't you sacrificed your life for nothing?" I replied, "No." "No" on one condition: that people understand the lesson of my life as a communist and a revolutionary, and do not turn themselves over to a deified party. I know that youth will succeed where we have failed, that socialism will triumph and that it will not have the colour of the Russian tanks that crushed Prague."

Simex capture[edit]

Perrault. 242 scope_creep^Talk 22:22, 4 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Simexco

January 1941 Simexco in Belgium. p.37 Gurevich setup simexco?

Gurevich gave him up.

Georgie de Winter, stayed in Belgium with their son, Patrick, but in March 1941 she moved to Paris to be with Trepper. France

In July 1940, Trepper fled Belgium along with Grossvogel and moved to Paris, to make it his new base.[31]

His assistants were Grossvogel and Hillel Katz.

Some point took over from Robinson, when arrived in France.

p.298. Nature of the network. Perrault. scope_creep^Talk 21:39, 10 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Passing a report, was the last thing he done[edit]

p.349 Perrault. Taking to Trepper.
350. Trepper explaining why he couldn't collaborate
351 November 1942
353 Giering found out treppers real name
354 Trepper wrote report in prison.
356-357 Katz meeting Juliette Moussier.

357. Giering allowed Trepper to go and see Juliette Moussier - Need a date for this. 358. Passed report to Juliette Moussier. Giering played him. 359. Spent next 6 months on funkspiel. Use date above.

Juliette affair was last big success for giering. scope_creep^Talk 15:53, 12 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Collaborator?[edit]

Should we regard this person as a collaborator? May raise some complex issues. PatGallacher (talk) 19:41, 2 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@PatGallacher: No, because he was sacrificing one to preserve another who were to seen to be more valuable. scope_creep^Talk 22:27, 2 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]