Talk:First Battle of Fallujah

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Lede reversion needs source and restoration[edit]

I have removed this edit made in the lede. Based upon this edit at the Dispute Resolution Noticeboard, which is where I encountered this issue, it was clearly original research axe-grinding. I did not, however, restore the material removed in that edit

and the failure of the operation to fully realize its tactical objectives would lead to a far more decisive engagement later in the year, the Second Battle of Fallujah

because it has been in the article since January 2011 without an inline citation and WP:BURDEN says, "The burden of evidence lies with the editor who adds or restores material, and is satisfied by providing a reliable source that directly supports the material." I have no sources to satisfy that burden — though admittedly I haven't looked for any — so I did not restore it. I would respectfully request that those who regularly edit this article and are familiar with this topic provide an inline source and restore the material. Regards, TransporterMan (TALK) 14:53, 20 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]

sick of political flamewars? come hang out in this section![edit]

(I believe I can reasonably predict that, whatever response (if any) is provoked by this comment, it will not be nearly so, er, passionate as many of the discussions on this talk page have become.)

The following is a quote from the "Background" section:

"Fallujah had generally benefited economically under Saddam Hussein, and many residents were employed as employes [sic], military and intelligence officers by his administration."

I found myself unable to continue, as my brain kept repeating:

"Employed as employes [sic]?"

I burst into a giggle fit, so entertained by this phrase that I didn't even notice the rather blatant misspelling of "employees."

I'd clarify it, but I have no clue what sort of unspecified employees Saddam Hussein employed (and we can't very well ask him about it, at least not without the benefit of time travel or clairvoyamce). It sounded like the sort of thing that might refer to something exciting and dangerous like spies or mercenaries, or at least highly specialised prostitutes, although I had to admit to myself that it was far more likely to be the result of mere carelessness on the part of the person who had (as I had noticed by this time) left an obvious typographical error uncorrected. (Probably I've just spent too long in the US, where (1) scandalous coverups of Very Nasty Business and/or extreme incompetence on the part of the government/military, and (2) amusingly preposterous one-liners by public officials both occur with impressive regularity, since each is necessary in order to keep a particular class of periodical from going bust, as well as to prevent people from getting bored, which could potentially lead to such undesirable and unpatriotic activities as voting.)

Eventually I was able to distract myself sufficiently that that my brain was able to achieve escape velocity from the silliness field generated by the "employed as employes" line. At this point, I examined the reference (10. "Violent Response," http://www.hrw.org/reports/2003/iraqfalluja/Iraqfalluja-02.htm#P105_11568) and found that it was indeed a simple error that had nothing to do with the cunningness of either the late Saddam Hussein or the Wikipedian who had written this about the former Iraqi dictator's…employes [sic]. (Not unless both of them were a lot more cunning than I think we can reasonably assume. Of course, anything's possible…)

Anyhow, the point is: can anyone offer some, you know, good old-fashioned WikiWisdom as to how to correct this business, or at last make it sound a bit less silly? (I can't decide whether to correct the spelling of "employees" or just change it to "police" (the word used in the reference) or what.) Mia229 (talk) 12:59, 14 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Units involved[edit]

I noticed that recently a number of US military units were added to the "Units involved" section. Some of them don't seem to be supported by any references I can find, with the 1st ID in particular being listed on another page as being in Ramadi. I realize that it's referring to a detachment but that detachment has no mention of being in Fallujah. Does anyone have any good references for the changes?Yojimbo1941 (talk) 16:06, 14 March 2016 (UTC) Still a lot of units being added as participating in the 1st Battle of Fallujah but little to no actual sources are being added to support this. It doesn't mean they weren't but it's starting to look like everyone's hat is being thrown into the mix. Does anyone have a good, solid source for participating units? Yojimbo1941 (talk) 14:22, 15 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Units are still being added but I've noticed that some have documentation of being involved in the Second Battle of Fallujah but not the first. I've been hesitant to remove units for the list since I realize that documentation can be difficult to find, but this has been going on for quite a while now. I'll make every effort to find a citation supporting a unit's inclusion but if I don't find anything I'll remove it from the list, or add it to the Second Battle of Fallujah if applicable. Yojimbo1941 (talk) 15:27, 17 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I'm going to be listing the units I've removed from the article here. Any listed here do not have any sources indicating that they took part in the First Battle of Fallujah.Yojimbo1941 (talk) 18:44, 17 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • 1st Battalion 3rd Marines
  • 2nd Battalion 7th Marines
  • 1st Light Armored Reconnaissance Battalion (took part in Second Battle of Fallujah)
  • 1st Platoon C Company 759th Military Police (took part in Second Battle of Fallujah)

Also, I found this link which lists an order of battle which should be helpful.Yojimbo1941 (talk) 16:36, 24 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Someone reinserted the 1st Light Armored Reconnaissance Battalion without providing any documentation that they were a participatory unit. Again, I understand there may be documentation issues but I would urge that without actual citations anyone could be adding units, some which may be incorrect.Yojimbo1941 (talk) 13:36, 22 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

External links modified[edit]

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Sentence claims more than source provides evidence for[edit]

"...PSYOP Tactical Psychological Operations Teams ... lured Iraqis out into the open for the Scout Snipers by reading scripts that were aimed at angering insurgent fighters and by blaring AC/DC along with Metallica and other rock music over their loud speakers.[38]"

This is the source that [38] leads to. https://web.archive.org/web/20041027025331/http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/ops/oif-vigilant-resolve.htm

It only mentions playing metallica, not any other rock music including AC/DC and also doesn't mention reading scripting to anger the insurgents. 47.145.207.244 (talk) 01:37, 5 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I came here to make a similar comment. I see the sentence in question has been revised, and is an improvement. However it still doesn't reflect the source. All the source says is that Metallica was played to "bait" the insurgents. Whatever that means is up to interpretation. I will amend the sentence to just say that such music was played by the unit in question as part of the operation, Toadchavay (talk) 13:20, 7 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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