Talk:Nicolas Flamel (Harry Potter)

This page has been converted to a redirect to Historical characters in Harry Potter.

Isn't it Nicolas, not Nicholas?

It says in the article that in the British and American versions of the book it is spelt without a h. Well following Wikipedia protocol on uses of the different dialects of English in articles, an English-language Wikipedia article should have the same punctuation as the version of English that the subject originates in, was born in etc. As Harry Potter is thoroughly British, all Harry Potter articles on Wikipedia use British English spelling and grammar - except this one. Unless anyone can prove that in the British version it is spelt with a h, I am moving this page to the correct name. It also distinguishes it from the real Nicholas Flamel. --Speedway 20:53, 11 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, but Nicolas Flamel was French!--216.7.254.254 21:08, 25 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I can confirm that it's spelt the French way (without the h) in the Commonwealth editions of the book (despite the fact that in the movie they insist on pronouncing the -s, as though it were spelt Nicholas!). But please don't move this page, the real Flamel was also French so it is that page that should be at Nicolas Flamel. Let's just merge the page. The 3 paragraphs can go under the "Allusions" heading on the page of the real Nicolas Flamel. Nick 21:39, 25 April 2006 (UTC)

Being native French speaker I can confirm that Nicolas is always spelt without 'h' in France. Also someone suggested a merge with the real life Nicolas Flamel, but I reject it, since the two of them have very different stories!. Lag 21:45, 30 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Merger[edit]

Disagree: The real life character and the Harry Potter character have different stories. THere is a collection of Harry Potter characters with entries as detailed as this, so to be consistent with that project, the pages should be kept seperate. -AndyBQ 23:01, 7 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

But their stories aren't that different. They're both alchemists who were trying to make the Philosopher's Stone. The timeline page says that the attributed age of 665 years would be correct for the real Flamel in 1996, which is when Rowling was actually writing. (Not when the book was finally set, but that's an editing issue.) I think that this proves the Rowling intended for her character to be identical to the real Flamel. I don't think we should pretend that he's fictional when that's not what she wanted.

And this page isn't that detailed. He's such a minor character in Harry (he never even appears!) that he doesn't really need a whole page. A single paragraph on the real Flamel page would be enough info. (There already is one under Allusions.) Nick 02:24, 8 May 2006 (UTC)

Keep Seperate - despite parallels between the real person and the fictitious character, they are obviously different. For one, only the fictitious character is said to have succeeded in creating the Philosopher's Stone . I'm fine with each article refering to the other; in fact, they should mention each other. Making them one article, however, just isn't right. timrem 03:18, 8 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Keep Seperate - They are very different: the real person never created the philosopher's stone (if you say that he did in an encyclopedia, you will be laughed at). The Harry Potter character did create it. This is such an acheivement, that it cannot be ommited from this article. The encyclopedia however needs to give historically accurate and serious information on the real character, and not mix fiction. Lag

Merge - 1. He never appears! 2. He's obviously meant to be the same person. 3. There's not enough info on the character as such to deserve a separate page. (Look at the character template!) For the difference between fact and fiction, the solution is simple. We say that he had success as he's depicted in the book. Here's my proposed addition to the real page:

In Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone J.K. Rowling depicted Flamel as having successfully created a philosopher's stone, which allowed him and Perenelle to live into the 1990s. The events of the novel surround the stone being entrusted to Albus Dumbledore to prevent it being stolen for Lord Voldemort.

Which says enough for us to replace the character page with a redirect. So as not to spoil the ending I have added "Dumbledore mentioned that Flamel had enough elixir to set his affairs in order, but noted that he would die. Nicolas Flamel has not been heard from since in the series, and J.K. Rowling has stated on her website that Flamel is now deceased [1]." to the HP-Philosopher's Stone plot summary. Nick 14:43, 8 May 2006 (UTC)

If there is not enough information for a page on its own, then we need to merge with another Harry Potter page, like "Minor Characters" not with a historical character page which is about historical reality. Lag 19:25, 8 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Merge with a minor characters page instead - I think that would be a fair compromise. But the closest I could find was this list. It's kinda interesting because, as well as having Perenelle Flamel linking to the real person, three of the Chocolate Frog wizards link to pages of real people. (There's also four legendary characters that Rowling didn't create.) So I think if this compromise is to work we'd have to make a new page, something like Historical Characters in Harry Potter. That page would describe how Rowling diverges from history slightly and link to the real pages. Nick 17:12, 9 May 2006 (UTC)

Requests for comment on proposed merger[edit]

I strongly advise keeping the Harry Potter version separate from the historical version, although with reference and link from one to the other. Harry Potter is not history, and it trivialises history to confuse the two.Tyrenius 03:48, 9 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I've revisited this page as it's still on RfC. Some further observations. 1) The reference to Harry Potter that is currently in the historical article gives as much information as can be justified in a historical article. Some people will be going there for serious, factual information about a real person. 2) If it's going to be merged anywhere, there is plenty of space in Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone to merge it there, which is the obvious solution, as it's about a character in that story. 3) Or just leave it as it is. Tyrenius 08:37, 19 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I think a merge with Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone would be most appropriate, so long as it then links to the real Flamel Page. Nick 14:54, 19 May 2006 (UTC)

I have made a page Historical Characters in Harry Potter and I have done the merge of this article into it. I am creating a redirect to the new page.

Nicolas and Harry.[edit]

I am only new to the Nicolas Flamel story but i freely admit that it has got me hook,line and sinker straight away. as to its being used in relation to the Harry potter story, i have to say that i dont think this is a bad thing at all, if anything it will entice younger generations to curiously enquire about such things as the philosophers stone and Nicolas and Pernelle Flamel. and from there who knows where that persons curiosity will lead.