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Lowellian suggested that this article be merged with game designer. I disagree since the term "game developer" is more generic than "game designer." In computer and video game development, the game designer is a specific and unambiguous role. Every person involved with the creation of the game can be referred to as a "game developer" including the game designer. Now this is probably not true in the case of developers of other types of games mentioned in the article, but the game designer article is almost completely about the computer and video game designer role. Merging it with this article would unbalance it. Instead, I've expanded the definitions a bit and provided links to other articles for those interested in those specific roles. Below is a comment from the article proper which Lowellian removed with his edit:
- This article is not this same as "Game designer" because that article is mostly about game designers - the individuals - rather than the companies, which is what this article is about. They are related and do overlap somewhat, but they are not the same topic.
Lowellian stated in his edit:
- i disagree; especially in the cases of small companies, there is no distinct line between individuals and companies; both are similar enough to be written about in one article
I don't think the issue is about the size of companies. Most video and computer game developers have very distinct roles which contributers play. Many of those involved with the creation of video/computer games do contribute to the game design, but the one person who has the final say of what goes into the game is the game designer. All this is mentioned in the game designer article.
If you feel we need to merge this article with the game designer article, please discuss it here first before re-inserting the merge message or merging the articles. — Frecklefoot | Talk 15:30, Oct 26, 2004 (UTC)
- There is no clear distinction between game designer and game developer. One does not necessarily refer to a company and one does not necessarily refer to a single individual. The two terms are used interchangeably. —Lowellian (talk)[] 11:57, Nov 4, 2004 (UTC)
- Let me put it this way: what information could you put into one article that you couldn't also put in the other? Notice how the game development redirects to game design (and yes, I created that final redirect, but if you look at the history of the article game development, it was never much of a real article and redirected by the article's own creator immediately after he or she created it). I'm well aware of how game programming teams often make one or more persons the game designer who might not even participate in coding the game, but that's very specific to video game development and doesn't apply to other gaming genres, wherein game designer and game developer are used interchangeably. If I said that Gary Gygax was a game designer, I think you'd have a hard time trying to prove he wasn't. If I said Gygax was a game developer, I think you'd still have a hard time trying to prove he wasn't. If I said Steve Jackson Games was a game designer, could you say it wasn't? If I said SGI was a game developer, again, could you say it wasn't? If you look at the official titles of people in gaming companies, some are called "game designers" and others are called "game developers". —Lowellian (talk)[] 12:11, Nov 4, 2004 (UTC)
- Regarding the very-specific video game example of video game designer vs. video game developer: a note can be inserted about it in game designer once the articles are merged. —Lowellian (talk)[] 12:15, Nov 4, 2004 (UTC)
I'm having a hard time following your logic. I'm trying to, but I'm not having much luck. Here is my position:
- In the video game industry, everyone who participates in developing the game can be called a "video game developer"
- The position of "game designer" is very specific, much as are the roles of game programmer, tester and producer
Yes, Gary Gygax is a game developer and a game designer. "Game developer" (or "video game developer") is an umbrella term that encompases many other, more specific roles. "Game developer" is a super-set of "game designer", "game programmer", etc.
Also, often the term "video game developer" is used to refer to the companies that develop the games as well.
- Let me try to make my position short:
- Video/computer game developer is perhaps a superset of video/computer game designer. However, game developer is not a superset of game designer; instead, the two terms are synonymous. —Lowellian (talk)[] 00:06, Nov 5, 2004 (UTC)
- If A is a superset of B and yet not equal to B, it must contain elements not in B. So what does the designation game developer encompass that is not encompassed within game designer? —Lowellian (talk)[] 00:10, Nov 5, 2004 (UTC)
- A superset is inherantly not equal to it's subset, as the subset is what it's superset is, and more. Classification is a tricky and disputed topic, fair enough. Here's an simple example though: and apple(sub) is a fruit(super). Apple fits the standard for defining a fruit, while fruit falls short of fitting the defined standard of being an apple.
- In software, design refers to the specification or the planning of a certain system. It's almost synonymous with "software architect", but the two are different in that the architect typically designs system structures. In game development, it specifically refers to the people who say things like "these are the character classes I propose". Development, however, refers to any effort taken to further a project, and a developer is one who makes that effort. A texture maker designs textures and is a developer, a programmer designs algorithms and is a developer, a game designer designs the game and is a developer.
- I'm removing the tags, they're rather confusing at best. Slike 00:10, 24 Dec 2004 (UTC)
Thanks, Slike, for taking the time to clarify things. I had grown weary of this discussion and was waiting for someone (like you) to come along and settle things. :-) — Frecklefoot | Talk 02:08, Dec 24, 2004 (UTC)
What happened to game designer/developer for NON-video games? To assume all games are a subset of video games is incorrect, and they all appear to have been consolidated under video. The designer of Magic the Gathering, a collectible card game, is a game designer/developer, but not a VIDEO game designer/developer. MinervaZee (talk) 16:53, 20 September 2010 (UTC)
- Not all game design is a subset of video games is true. However, no one has yet stepped up and wrote an article about the design of other types of games other than video games. That article has yet to be written. So for now, game design only refers to video games on Wikipedia. — Frεcklεfσσt | Talk 17:09, 20 September 2010 (UTC)