Talk:Nigel Gresley

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Discussion[edit]

I've added some more information, but I can't seem to edit the to-do list! Oh well Trampled 12:44, 2 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Scratch that, it's updated it now. Hurrah Trampled 12:45, 2 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Biography[edit]

I've added some early biog details, taken from the 1912 Railway Year Book. I'm sure that one of my Railway Magazines has a much more updated version: I'll keep looking. There's the knighthood for a start Peter Shearan 06:27, 17 Apr 2005 (UTC)

ante-natal complications[edit]

That phrase confuses me. Anyone have an idea what is meant? ++Lar: t/c 11:45, 12 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Concur. That does not make sense. It almost sounds as if the comment is designed to excuse why he was born in Edinburgh, as if that were something that needed excusing. I presume his mother had problems during pregnancy and as both Glasgow and Edinburgh had, at the time, world class reputations for advanced and pioneering medical practices then perhaps that was the best care available. For example, the first successful Ceasarean Section under modern antiseptic conditions was performed at Rotten Row Glasgow in 1888 by Murdoch Cameron. Notwithstanding all that I dont think the article needs that comment. If it has some bearing on his life or other truely encyclopeadic reason then explain it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.26.104.178 (talk) 22:05, 4 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]

It explains why he is not Scottish. MidlandLinda (talk) 21:17, 7 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]
He wasn't Scottish, no. His father's family had been in Netherseal, Derbyshire for many generations. His mother, Joanna Beatrice nee Wilson, was born in 1839 in Staffordshire. At the time of Nigel's birth (he was not called Nigel by family or friends -- since all Gresley boys were given Nigel as one of their forenames -- he was always called Tim), Joanna was 37 and had had four live children followed by one stillbirth or miscarriage. For her sixth pregnancy, at what would then be considered an advanced age, she was referred, according to a speech by Sir Nigel's grandson Tim Godfrey, to a gynaecologist or obstetrician in Edinburgh (the city being famed for its medical schools), which is why Nigel was born there. "The four earliest children of Rev. Nigel and Joanna Gresley were all born at Netherseal and had arrived at intervals of a year or two as was frequently the case in those Victorian days. Joanna no doubt expected to have other children after Nigel Bowyer who was born in 1870. However, difficulties may have ensued as her fifth child was not born until six years later - and not in Netherseal but in Edinburgh. Tim Godfrey's mother's memoirs state that her father was a sixth child, so Joanna may have had a miscarriage or there may have been an infant that did not survive. In either case, it would not have been named or shown in the baptismal records of St Peter's church. His mother was not in good health and she went to Edinburgh to see an eminent woman specialist and stayed with her until the birth under her care. She nearly died giving birth and the doctors fought successfully to save her life, almost forgetting the tiny premature baby lying at the end of the bed. Happily, he survived and flourished, and grew up to be a strong child." http://www.sirnigelgresley.org.uk/chime-archive/sngplaque.shtml Sir Nigel, an Englishman of English parents, studied and worked and lived his whole life in England and is buried there in his ancestral village. He may have designed the legendary A1 Pacific 'Flying Scotsman', but he wasn't Scottish. John McEnroe was born in Germany, but he isn't German. Julie Christie and Sir Cliff Richard were born in India, but they aren't Indian. Khamba Tendal (talk) 19:19, 16 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

conjugated valve gear[edit]

Gresley's engines were considered elegant, both aesthetically and mechanically. His invention of a three-cylinder design with only two sets of Walschaerts valve gear, the Gresley conjugated valve gear, produced smooth running and power at lower cost than would have been achieved with a more conventional three sets of Walschaerts gear.

Well, while this may be true, one should mention, that the valve gear was disputed and Thompson as well as Peppercorn rebuilt many engines with an independent set of gear for the inside cylinders. There seemed to be a major problems with slack in the gear, when maintenance conditions were not ideal or the engines had amassed high mileages after the last overhaul, leading to poor performance or even failure of middle big end. I think this should be incorporated in the article. Thanks, --92.227.22.42 (talk) 16:59, 9 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

There's some good discussion (in Nock/Ahrons?) of '48 exchange trials where it's put forward that the best of all worlds would be Gresley's 3 cylinders with Swindon's build quality and their Zeiss optical alignment system. The conjugated gear was a great design but it certainly suffered if it wasn't perfectly aligned or if it wore.
Not sure you can blame it for the middle big end though. Andy Dingley (talk) 17:30, 9 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Well, Nock in his “British Locomotives of the 20th Century”, Volume 2 - covering the period from 1930 to 1960 about the upheavel within the LNER, when Thompson took office and claims to have his information right from Thompson’s lips in 1945. On page 108 Nock states:
He (Thompson that is) told Sir Ronald (the LNER chairman) that while Sir Nigel Gresley was ‘the greatest engine designer we ever had, he made one mistake …’ and he enlarged upon the shortcomings of the conjugated valve gear.
Further down the page - following a rough technical description of the gear and the then experienced general problems due to the war - the troubles are mentioned.
However, ‘clanking’ rods, [..], could be endured; the accumulated slack in the five pin joints of the derived valve gear, on the other hand brought deep trouble. It led to the valve spindle overrunning and delaying the point of cut-off of the steam in the middle cylinder, which meant that cylinder was doing far more than its proper share of work, and imposing excessive loads on the middle connecting rods, and big-end. This weakness in the machinery of the Gresley “Pacifics” had been well enough known in pre-war years; but the occasions on the which the engines had to give up their trains because of an over-heated middle big-ends are remembered best not from the failure of the train engine, but by the gallant efforts of the crews to retrieve the situation with the “Atlantic” provided at a moment’s notice in substitution. The most serious failure of all was, of course, [..] Mallard, following the attainment of the world record speed pf 126mph.
Source: O. S. Nock: British Locomotives of the 20th Century, Volume 2: 1930-1960, Patrick Stephens Limited, 1985, ISBN 0-85059-596-7.
I have more often than not seen Nock’s perceptions being regarded as unreliably or rather singular (i.e. regarding Gresley’s P2s and their rebuilt by Thompson) but cannot judge that myself. However, assuming good faith in Nock’s case, one can take Thompson’s word for what it was. The conjugated valve gear was very good when properly set and serviced but could lead to dire trouble under deteriorating conditions. That is, why think that the above statement should be amended. Regards, --78.48.199.241 (talk) 17:09, 10 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

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