Talk:Croque monsieur

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Garbled and unreadable[edit]

In addition to the nonsense about Butter Bread (see below) that someone seems very hung up on, the "preparation" and "variation" are a jumble of edit warring, non-english and stuff that belongs in other sections or not at all.

Preparation should be the original french recipe(s) with references and without meandering discussions Variations should probably read "international variations" and should actually show some sort of connection or inspiration linking to the Croquet Monsieur, with a reference to support it. We have a mixture of variations, similar dishes and things that are just other people's way of messing about with a ham and cheese sandwich.

I came here because I was unsure about the difference between a Croquet Monsieur and a Monte Cristo, the article's attempt to explain that is poor and contradictory, I feel dumber having read it.

"Butter bread"[edit]

What on earth is "butter bread"? This expression has no meaning in (British) English. Does it have a specific meaning in American English or is it just L1/L2 interference from someone whose native language is French or perhaps even German? (In German, Butterbrot means simply "buttered bread"). This should be rephrased in idiomatic English. Is "buttered sliced bread" perhaps what is meant here?

From my experience of living in both France and Belgium, croques monsieur are made with sliced bread, of the same type used for making toast. (i.e. what we call "Toastbrot" in German). Nigelroberts (talk) 06:36, 26 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, is nonsense -- will attempt to fix. quota (talk) 19:26, 29 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

I wonder who changed it back? "Butter bread" has no useful meaning in English, does it mean buttered bread? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.217.22.199 (talk) 19:45, 18 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Picture[edit]

Might I suggest a picture that makes the croque monsieur looks more appetizing? I've eaten my fair share of them, and they're pretty tasty--that one doesn't look very good. Thyroidpsychic 00:08, 4 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Egg[edit]

Are croque monsieurs always dipped in egg? My recollection from Paris is that they are not. A french page illustrating the manufacture of croque messieurs as well as this english-language one also suggest this may not always be the case. Mpntod 21:21, Nov 25, 2004 (UTC)

T'as bien raison, Martin! Et c'était bien dommage, ton résultat en mai... :( -- Picapica 4 July 2005 21:44 (UTC)

When I was in Paris, none of my croque monsieurs were dipped in egg. This should be struck from the article. At most, it should be mentioned as a variation. The photo I took of a croque monsieur I made is also not dipped in egg. Mbrewer 04:37, 20 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

'Croque monsieur' or 'Croque-monsieur': why was this page moved?[edit]

Why did User:Kaihsu move this article from Croque monsieur to Croque-monsieur? Mbrewer 04:44, 20 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Very good question. Should we move it back? Mpntod 08:20, 20 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Yes. 'Croque-monsieur' should, in my opinion, redirect to 'Croque monsieur'. Rob cowie 14:23, 12 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I guess he did it because that's how it was referred to in the article title. Croque-monsieur appears to be the french form. Looking at various websites, the most common form in english is croque monsieur. Mpntod 17:41, 12 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Egg[edit]

In regards to the egg on top, I've always heard that called a Croque Madame. It probably depends on subtle differences in the recipe or maybe just a regional name change. Thyroidpsychic 00:03, 4 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

All the places I eat in France call the one with the egg on top a 'Croque Cheval'. Is that just my experience? Pimdip 21:57, 23 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

If you actually eat places in France then the locals may call it a croque-cheval to honour your equine appetite. 217.44.141.43 13:09, 3 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

At Versailles and elsewhere I ate in Paris, the ones with an egg on top were Croque Madame. Mbrewer 04:17, 17 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I'm french and I never heard of anything such as croque-cheval. I confirm that a Croque-Madame is a croque-monsieur with an egg "à cheval", meaning "on top". By user Wikimuf.

McDonalds advertising[edit]

Am I the only one disturbed by the not so subliminal advertising message concerning McDonald's products? by Wikimuf. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Wikimuf (talk • contribs) 16:46, 1 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Swiss cheese?[edit]

The croque-monsieur is a french sandwich. Why would swiss cheese typically be used? Gruyere and Emmenthal are both swiss cheeses. It doesn't make any sense. The French have enough of their own cheeses, even a bigger variety than you can find in Switzerland. I know that Gruyere and Emmenthal are suitable for melting, but so are hundreds of other sorts of cheese that can be found in all corners of Europe. I would have thought that when dishes originally developed, they did so locally with local ingredients. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 178.83.185.108 (talk) 03:43, 13 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Well, Gruyere or Greyerzer has to be produced in Switzerland, whereas Emmentaler is just a type of cheese, can be produced anywhere and is widely used for recipes requiring melted cheese. Not because it is an original ingredient, but because it is cheaper and easier to store than other types. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 176.5.174.226 (talk) 23:07, 1 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Gruyère is also french. 2A01:E0A:224:DA90:B88B:9BAC:E150:244F (talk) 10:25, 7 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

French Emmental has been made since the 19th century, when Swiss Germans migrated to Eastern France. It's produced in Haute-Savoie, Franche-Comte and Burgundy. Emmental de Savoie and Emmental Francais (Franche-Comte) now have their own Protected Geographical Indications. Khamba Tendal (talk) 19:40, 24 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Cheese on top[edit]

I've traveled in France a number of times and in my experience a normal croque-monsieur has the melted cheese on top, as shown in the photo. I've encountered them on French-language menus in Belgium and/or Switzerland as well, but in at least one of those countries, the cheese is inside, making the sandwich into what I (as a North American) would call an ordinary "grilled cheese with ham" (or "grilled ham and cheese").

Something like this, properly confirmed by actual sources or at least local knowledge, should go into the article. --50.100.193.30 (talk) 22:36, 14 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]

More than just cheese on top I have frequently found croque-monsieurs both in the US (and a few that I saw in France) also include either bechamel or a mornay on top, which is then broiled. The pages for those sauces both link into croque-monsieur. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.81.86.108 (talk) 17:15, 26 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Dutch link to tosti[edit]

A croque-monsieur is a tosti in dutch, because what we in dutch call a tosti must have both ham and cheese. However, someone removed the dutch link from croque-monsieur to tosti and this person placed it under cheese-sandwich. But a cheese-sandwich only has cheese and NOT ham. And a tosti without ham is in dutch not allowed to be called a tosti (it is then called: broodje gegrilde kaas). Therefor I've restored the dutch language link for croque-monsieur to tosti and I've removed it from cheese-sandwich. Saratje86 (talk) 19:51, 27 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Bechamel sauce[edit]

I've always considered bechamel sauce to be an essential part of this sandwich. But the article doesn't list it as an ingredient anywhere. The only mention is when talking about the tosti:

very similar to the croque-monsieur though not containing any béchamel or egg

Which implies that croque-monsieur does contain bechamel. 86.167.212.238 (talk) 11:54, 27 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Yes!! agreed.

I lived in France.

Cr.Mr. was never prepared without

Béchamel Sauce.

Be it Served at Bistro , most likely with Salad Greens.

or grab one at

Your Local boulangerie. 24.189.235.25 (talk) 14:27, 23 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

grillé means fried?[edit]

estranged th ewhole line talking bout the lost in translation by-product. "grillé" means grilled and not fried (which is "frit") — Preceding unsigned comment added by 109.51.188.254 (talk) 07:34, 3 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Fried ("frit(e)" from the verb "frire") means you use some fat to cook the aliment. You simply translate "grillé(e)" by griled. 176.149.114.93 (talk) 22:31, 9 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Egg???[edit]

Non, pas d œufs, c est le pain perdu avec des œufs.... u kind of mixed 2 different things together..... croque monsieur never eggs, croque madame fried egg on top..... many variation, but never ever dipped in egg.... it s a sacrilege....... 109.240.155.234 (talk) 11:20, 15 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]