Talk:Hurricane Carla

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Good articleHurricane Carla has been listed as one of the Natural sciences good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can reassess it.
Did You Know Article milestones
DateProcessResult
March 23, 2013Good article nomineeListed
November 5, 2015Featured topic candidatePromoted
February 22, 2023Featured topic removal candidateDemoted
Did You Know A fact from this article appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page in the "Did you know?" column on January 18, 2013.
The text of the entry was: Did you know ... that Hurricane Carla ranks as the most intense U.S. tropical cyclone landfall on the Hurricane Severity Index?
Current status: Good article

Galveston flooding[edit]

GT (talk) 00:52, 14 September 2008 (UTC)Are you sure that Dan Rather broadcast from the Seawall? All the broadcasts that I know about were from the US Weather office in the Federal building. I was very aware of that because I was on Pelican Island, broadcasting news on Radio Station KGBC. It upset me that when I called the Weather Bureau, folks there were so busy with Rather (a family friend, by the way) that they didn't have time to give me information several times. His reports were going out to people all over the nation, while ours were going out to people stranded in their homes with no electricity, listening on Transistor Radios, desperate for any information on this terrible storm. As for the flooding, when the fan belt began fraying on our emergency generator, I had to go across the Ship Channel to Galveston for another one. I found the base of the bridge flooded and I had to wade through waist-deep water to reach Broadway. As I recall, there was little or no water on Broadway and I was able to walk to an auto-parts store to get a fan belt. (We called the owner at home to come open the store) The comment that the Seawall doesn't stop flooding is correct. Its purpose is to stop the waves. Don Gene Tuck[reply]

Cyrius states: Carla couldn't have flooded 90% of Galveston, storm surge wasn't high enough to clear the seawall.

I would estimate that the storm surge in the Galveston area was about 10 feet at the peak of the storm. This is about 5 feet below the top of the seawall. (This is a personal observation made during the storm.) However, the water did not come over the seawall; it came around the seawall.

It is important to distinguish between the city of Galveston, which occupies only a small portion of the Island, and the Island itself. I would say that 30% to 50% of the city was flooded. Well over 90% of the Island was flooded.

Most of Galveston Island West of 48th Street was flooded. There was also some flooding in the northern area of the city according to reports I received.

Carla caused very little damage in the part of the Island protected by the seawall. However, beyond the seawall, to the West, damage was quite heavy. Almost all structures made of cinderblock were destroyed by the waves that came in on the storm surge. Many of the wooden houses survived with only water damage.

Most of the damage came after Carla. About six or seven tornadoes struck Galveston. Only one did significant damage, but it was quite something to see. -- Carbon12 2004 Dec 25

If you're sure about the flooding, you can add it back. But I'd still like to see some documentation from reasonably reliable primary sources. -- Cyrius|✎ 07:12, 26 Dec 2004 (UTC)

The flooding is a minor part of the story of Carla. It only takes a few feet of storm surge to flood most of the island. (The part of the island on which the city sits was raised an average of seven feet during the construction of the seawall, and so is less flood-prone.)

More troubling are claims such as: "The storm remains the strongest to strike the Texas coastline." The strongest storm to strike the Texas coastline would have to be the 1900 Storm.

I do not consider myself an expert on this. I just happened to have been there, and unlike Dan Rather, I was out in the storm every day. I was thinking I might post an account of my experiences and let someone else make the editorial decisions. -- Carbon12 17:06, 26 Dec 2004 (UTC)

The NHC numbers say that Carla is tied with the 1900 Hurricane for wind speeds at time of landfall. -- Cyrius|✎ 19:15, 26 Dec 2004 (UTC)

UNISYS shows that they both had the same wind speed at landfall, but Carla [1] had a lower pressure: 931 millibars (27.49 inches) as opposed to the Galveston Hurricane's 936 millibars (27.64 inches). [2] When ranking the most intense storms in the Atlantic, most lists I've seen rank them by pressure. So, if we applied that here, Carla would be stronger at landfall.

E. Brown, Hurricane enthusiast - Squawk Box 19:57, 21 May 2005 (UTC)[reply]

My mom was a teenager when Hurricane Carla hit. She and my dad were both born and raised in San Antonio, roughly 100 miles inland from Galveston. She recalls heavy rain in S.A. every day for about a month due to Carla's effects on the city. She's talked about huge earthworms crawling up and onto the sidewalks and concrete because staying underground would've caused them to drown. If there was that much flooding 100 miles from where this hurricane made a direct hit, can you even imagine how much flooding there must have been in Galveston? This is where I ultimately believe the original assertion that 90% of the city was flooded. 161.226.4.6 (talk) 21:25, 8 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Stupidity[edit]

IS IT TRUE IT WAS THE LARGEST STORM IN SIZE IN THE ATLANTIC BASIN EVER??

WHO KNOWS THEY DIDN'T HAVE SATELLITES BACK THEN!!
While they didn't have satellites, they did have enough ship and land reports to construct surface maps. One of the ways of estimating storm size is to measure the distance between the storm center and the outermost closed isobar, known as ROCI (radius of the outermost closed isobar). The other method of estimating storm size is to judge its gale radius. While this can be estimated using satellite imagery, it is not the primary way the radius of gale force winds is computed. Thegreatdr (talk) 23:34, 20 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

My understanding is this was the first storm tracked by a satellite. There is a image in this article. In fact this should be discussed in this article. I remember this storm. We were in Houston when I was in 2nd grade. No power so we didn't get to see Dan Rather.  :) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ahbushnell (talk • contribs) 11:36, 27 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Todo[edit]

Restructuring (separate meteorology from impact), better intro. Jdorje 23:00, 11 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

11/18/2012 someone should really add this youtube video of Dan Rather speaking about the event http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vmJnbeRr0vc — Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.206.244.43 (talk) 13:31, 18 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

table overlaying text[edit]

someone who knows how needs to fix the table in this article which is overlayinng part of the text. Thanks Hmains 18:34, 15 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

pressure strangeness[edit]

Seems the 931 mbar pressure was from after the storm weakened to a category 4. But in the best-track there are pressure readings from the cat5 periods, in the upper 930s. I wonder if the MWR explains it. — jdorje (talk) 10:14, 7 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Tropical cyclones can yield lower central pressures with lower wind speed when they increase in size. While this normally happens during recurvature into higher latitudes, the bulk of the storm interacting with landmasses (Isidore 2002 and Katrina 2005) can produce lower winds than one would expect with a relatively low central pressure. Thegreatdr (talk) 23:37, 20 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

IS$2.03 billion?[edit]

Should this be US$2.03 billion? 86.136.250.66 (talk) 15:40, 10 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Michigan rainfall discrepacy[edit]

After looking through the article and the 8" reference, I see why the amount didn't make the rainfall graphic. There was no specific location mentioned, just the Lower Peninsula. If anyone can find out where that was which received 8", let me know and it will be added to the TC rainfall graphics for Carla and related pages. Thegreatdr (talk) 04:54, 12 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Kansas geography problem[edit]

In the "Elsewhere in the United States" section the sentence "Severe crop damage occurred, especially in areas of Chautauqua and Shawnee Counties to the south of the Kansas River" is problematic. Chautauqua County is on the Oklahoma border and nowhere near the Kansas River, which is in northeast Kansas. Ks0stm (T•C•G•E) 05:07, 18 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

GA Review[edit]

GA toolbox
Reviewing
This review is transcluded from Talk:Hurricane Carla/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: TheAustinMan (talk · contribs) 22:03, 21 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Hello GC, I will be reviewing Hurricane Carla. TheAustinMan(Talk·Works) 22:03, 21 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Dashboard Bot Checks[edit]

  • Peer reviewer indicates to flip the See Also section with the [[Hurricane Carla#References|References section, see WP:LAYOUT for details.
  • As always, try your best to include non-breaking spaces for measurements, though this is not a requirement for GAN, it is good practice.
  • No disambiguations or dead links. Good job! TheAustinMan(Talk·Works) 22:47, 21 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Lead[edit]

  • "The third tropical cyclone and first Category 5 hurricane..." Since you already say tropical cyclone in the sentence prior, try something else, like named storm.
  • "Heading north or north-northeastward..." Were the meteorologists or best track not indicative or unsure of such motion?
  • Actually it was both directions, but I changed it to "generally northward".--12george1 (talk) 00:14, 22 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • "...the outer bands..." Link bands to rainband.
  • "...$300 million in losses in Texas alone..." Could use a nb-note indicating that all values listed are in 1961 USDs.
  • "Several tornadoes also touched down in Louisiana and caused the destruction..." → "Several tornadoes also touched down in Louisiana, causing the destruction of..."
  • "Minor to moderate damage was also reported to 748 homes and 75 farm and other buildings suffered minor to moderate damage..." Remove the second 'minor to moderate damage' since its redundant–the fact is already mentioned at the beginning of the sentence.
  • "6 deaths and $25 million in losses in Louisiana were attributed to Carla." It is preferable to not start a sentence with a number, particularly a numeral.
  • "...Kansas, where flash flooding severely damaged crops and 5 people drowned." IMO this should be written as "Kansas, where flash flooding severely damaged crops and drowned 5 people." TheAustinMan(Talk·Works) 22:47, 21 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Meteorological history[edit]

  • You should link 'upper-tropospheric' to something suitable.
  • Link 'Surface charts' too, one might not know what a surface chart is. Or you could rephrase it to surface weather analysis maps for more clarity. The second usage of surface charts, and any subsequent uses, are o.k.
  • "...thus the depression strengthened into Tropical Storm Carla while located just northeast of Cabo Gracias a Dios." Did it strengthen into tropical storm strength, or into a Carla-strength? Try rephrasing to show that the storm was named Carla to reflect its intensity change and not that TS Carla is a type of category.
  • "...the storm reach..." Wrong tense.
  • "...and fell to a Category 2 hurricane on September 12." 'Degenerated' would be the better term.
  • "Later that day, Carla was downgraded to a tropical storm between Taylor and Coupland." This is the third instance of 'later' so far in this paragraph alone. Try combining with previous sentence or changing wording to avoid too much usage. TheAustinMan(Talk·Works) 22:47, 21 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Preparations[edit]

  • "On September 8, a hurricane watch along the southwest coast of the state from Vermilion Bay westward." Missing a verb.

Impact[edit]

  • One-syllable numbers here should be spelled out, and elsewhere in the article.
  • "...the largest hurricane-related tornado outbreaks on record at the time..." One of the largest, the largest?
  • Actually yes, it was the largest tornado outbreak from a tropical cyclone, at the time.--12george1 (talk) 00:14, 22 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • "...10 feet (3.0 m) mean sea level..." You should say 10 feet (3.0 m) above (MSL).
  • A lot of the place names in the impact section could use links.
  • Eh, not too many. Most of the place names not linked either had no article or were linked earlier in the article.--12george1 (talk) 00:14, 22 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • "the highest wind gusts observations" Should be gust, not gusts.
  • Port O'Conner → Port O'Connor
  • "...415 other building." building(s)
  • "Winds caused a local river..." Do they know which one?
  • "2 to 8 inches (51 to 200 mm) of rainfall fell in Grant, Tillman, Washita Counties." Again, don't start a sentence with a number, and you could use {{convert|2|–|8|in|mm|abbr=on}} instead of 'to'.
  • "...flooded damage in other areas..." Can damage be flooded? You should say flooded property.
  • I actually just ditched the word "flooded"--12george1 (talk) 00:14, 22 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • "wahsed" Wah.
  • "...in northeastern part..." Either 'in northeastern parts' or 'in the northeastern part,' but not both at the same time.
  • "...and $670,000 in damage..." → '...and caused $670,000 in damage'
  • "...amounts of 7 inches (180 mm) or throughout northwestern Illinois." Or what?
  • Sometimes I add extra or words here and there.--12george1 (talk) 00:14, 22 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • "...second wettest tropical cyclone in Illinois..." A link to Illinois' section in wettest tropical cyclones in the United States would be helpful.
  • "Occurring a year after Hurricane Donna, officials in the Florida Keys took precautions to brace for potential impact from the storm. The United States Navy flew their planes out of Key West, while Coast Guardsmen evacuated Alligator Reef Light, American Shoal Light, and Sombrero Key Light. Ships docked at Key West sailed out to sea to ride out the squalls." This should go in the Preparations section, not impact.
  • "outerbands" Not a compound word.
  • "Hydrometeorological Prediction Center" 'Tis now the WPC, unless you want to be historically accurate and call it the 'National Meteorological Center.'
  • "Offshore Honduras on Swan Island, a rainfall amount of 3.89 inches (99 mm) along with wind gusts up to 60 mph (95 km/h)." Add in a 'was reported' between the inch amount and along. TheAustinMan(Talk·Works) 22:47, 21 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Aftermath and retirement[edit]

Baytown, TX omission[edit]

The following are comments from the Sep 2023 Help desk [3] which note that it might be an error that Baytown, Texas (not to be confused with Bay City) was not mentioned as one of the cities that Carla significantly impacted. See the last comment, by Cullen328, for several sources which talk of the impact on Baytown. --R. S. Shaw (talk) 20:36, 8 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I understand that this meteorological event occurred a long time ago. I don't know that commenting on Hurricane Carla is worthy of mention at this time. I merely wish to suggest the Storm may have impacted more areas than were mentioned in the Wikipedia treatment of the event. I am familiar with the Baytown area, east of Houston. In 1961, it was a medium-sized town, dedicated to the operation of the Baytown Refinery, Humble Oil's (Later re-named Esso and Exxon) local plant. The Refinery was the largest producer/refiner of petroleum products in the United States. It bore the responsibility of supplying more diesel fuel and other petroleum-based products to American Armed Forces in World War II's European theater of operations than any other refinery. It continues as a major refinery today. The point of this comment is that I saw no mention Of Baytown as an area of impact in the Hurricane. I heard from many citizens shortly after the storm. Their stories were horrific. One newer subdivision on the edge of the residential area was completely flooded; nothing was left that could be recognized as homes, stores, schools, etc. My only reason for commenting is to suggest that Baytown may have been omitted either as a result of an error or oversight. I don't pretend to decide whether it is worthy of adding into the story of Hurricane Carle, I am merely stating that one city that was strongly impacted was not included, as far as I can see. It would be inclusive to add the name of "Baytown" to the list of communities that were affected. I had numerous friends and relatives in this community. I had a personal connection, although not a current one to the area when Hurricane Carle struck. It surprised me to see the town's name not a part of the storm's story. Thank you. Remoay (talk) 13:20, 20 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Remoay, all articles have talk pages - that is the standard place to discuss improvements to the article itself. If you post at Talk:Hurricane Carla and can provide reliable sources to back up your recollections, someone may eventually add the information. 57.140.16.29 (talk) 13:30, 20 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
@Remoay I'm afraid that without any reliable sources reporting the event, this cannot be added into the article. However, as the previous user recommended, try to find some sources then post them at the talk page, and someone might add it into the article. Industrial Insect (talk) 14:51, 20 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Remoay, here is an article about Hurricane Carla's impact on Baytown. Here is another article. This book appears to be a collection of news reports about Hurricane Carla and it includes at least three articles about its impact on Baytown. I hope this helps. Cullen328 (talk) 19:57, 20 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
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