Talk:EMC E2

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This article was previously nominated for deletion. The result of the discussion was keep.

VfD[edit]

Hoary has withdrawn his request for Vfd.

The vote was 14 to nothing in favor of keeping.

So is it now safe to remove the unsightly Vfd tag?

— DV 14:05, 24 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Safety aside, I believe it's not proper to do so. I've said I'd like it removed and I've even contacted a moderator to see if it could be pulled off quickly. The answer was that it was better not to do so. I suppose it would be different if some naughty child of mine had stuck it on without my knowledge while I was out of the room, or if I'd been drunk at the time; but however I may now regret adding the Vfd notice I can't pretend that it was added illicitly or accidentally. Without bothering to count the days, I think it will anyway only last a little longer, and in the meantime it's a valuable lesson in humility to me and perhaps others, and (as illustrated by you) it may help to bring new people to the article. -- Hoary 02:24, 2004 Dec 25 (UTC)

In the long view—in my opinion, the best way to view the work in progress that is Wikipedia—the VFD listing got the article a lot more attention and improvement than they would otherwise have gotten. In this way, a VFD listing is a positive for any article that needs 'something' to be worthwhile. —Morven 04:01, Dec 25, 2004 (UTC)

Seeing this discussion now, I'm reminded of a saying I once heard: the best way to get an answer on the internet is not to post a question, but is to post a falsehood. I have no idea who first said it. Slambo (Speak) 17:47, 8 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Builder[edit]

Just a historian's note here, but all GM locomotives built prior to 1941 were built by the Electro-Motive Corporation (EMC). The Electro-Motive Division (EMD) was formed on January 1, 1941 with the merger of the Winton Engine Company with EMC.

Archived deletion debate[edit]

For the archived deletion debate for this article see Talk:EMD E2/delete -- Graham ☺ | Talk 21:58, 27 Dec 2004 (UTC)

EMC to EMD[edit]

I've moved that discussion to its own heading. It's interesting, but I'm still not sure if it belongs in this article, which is on a locomotive produced a good 3+ years before the GM acquisition. It might be better off in the article on the E series locomotives. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.111.51.98 (talk) 05:36, 2 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Looking a little further into the matter, I'm beginning to question the premise, to wit, standardization forced upon EMC/EMD by GM. The E-series was standardized in mechanics and basic design from the beginning of the line and there was cosmetic tailoring done on EMD/GM models after the war, such as the porthole windows, stainless steel badge plates, and pilot bars on UP's E7 locomotives. The custom nose bodywork of the E2 seems to be the only form in the E series that is out of the ordinary and UP's next orders were off-the-shelf E3 and E6 locomotives with no more than the usual degree of detail variation that was done before and after the GM acquisition. The E5 wasn't strictly a custom model either because it was sold to more than one customer. Other than the body materials and the usual variation in side vents and windows it is identical to the E3. It seems evident that what changed was not the amount of variation allowed between customer orders but the conventions for new model designation. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.111.51.98 (talk) 08:00, 2 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]

I've removed the extraneous, questionable section and moved it here pending discussion

The E2 locomotives were envisioned and designed during the time that the Electro-Motive Corporation (EMC) was an independent business. EMC custom designed and built motive power units to the needs and desires of the operating railroads, having supplied the drive systems for the Zephyr (Budd) and 1000x series (Pullman) trainsets. It was EMC's standard practice to make cosmetic modifications of its E series locomotives for individual customer orders. The General Motors Corporation acquired ownership of EMC on January 1, 1941. GM believed in the standardization of its products, that were sold to either individuals or to the corporations of an entire industry, while the railroads at the time, still had a veritable, “handicraft” industry of motive power (locomotive) design and construction. This was incomprehensible to GM, who were by then an advanced 20th century Corporation. General Motors quickly moved to establish in railway motive power a set of standardized products that delivered either passenger or freight horse power-hours, reliably and efficiently. EMD standardized on EMC's current product, the 2000 hp E6 locomotives. The E5, produced with cosmetic modifications for Burlington's "Zephyr" theme in 1940-41, was the last of the custom locomotives. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.111.51.98 (talk) 17:11, 2 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]