Talk:English Springer Spaniel

Springer Rage Syndrome

We need to add some info on S.R.S. There was a good article in the printed magazine from http://www.avma.org/ recently

"Springer Rage Syndrome" is an unfortunate label. The truth is that rage aggression can occur in most any breed of dog - not just springers. Using the term "springer rage" only perpetuates the idea that the problem is specific to springers and leads people to assume that all springers are prone to the disorder. Having owned a springer who developed rage aggression myself, I am VERY familiar with the condition. I can also say that rage aggression is extremely uncommon in the field bred English springer spaniel. Show breeders are also to be commended, as they have been making great efforts to improve their gene pool, as well.--Crickette 19:46, 11 May 2007 (UTC)

Please put any springer rage discussion here so it can be hashed out before going into the main article. This is a volatile topic it appears (I am no expert). Mikebar (talk) 20:01, 17 February 2009 (UTC)

Spot Fetcher

Spot Fetcher has deceased, should there be some indication of this underneath his image on the English Springer Spaniel page? Jack 18:39, 24 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Celtic history

Addition to the page say that legend attributes victory at Battle of Stirling Bridge in part to a spaniel, but that article says nothing about a dog. Can anyone verify and/or add appropriate info? Elf | Talk 19:40, 26 February 2006 (UTC)

Agree, can someone elaborate more abour the so-called Merlin MacDonald, he doesn't appear in any website save for this page!! April 11th 2006, 20:38 GMT-6

Newbie Question: Do we list breeder site on here?

Hi there, I'm new here and have been going thru alot of the Sporting Dog breeds and wonder if we do/or will we, ever be listing breeders? Wouldn't listing these websites be an advantage here? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by LdyDragonfly (talk • contribs) .

I doubt if breeder listings would go over well:

• They can be regarded as commercial, and if there is any possibility that they are posted or modified by the breeders themselves, they will be quickly reverted.
• They are arguably not encyclopedic.
• Breeders come and go, so it would be hard to keep the list current.
• General clubs (such as AKC) and breed clubs often have breeder referral services, which is a more appropriate place.

Also (IMO), I'd never get a dog from a breeder listed only in Wikipedia, and a reputable breeder would not sell me a dog just because I found their listing in Wikipedia.--Curtis Clark 05:14, 2 May 2006 (UTC)

See also

I added back Welsh Springer Spaniel; it links to this article, and both are linked from the Springer Spaniel disambiguation page.--Curtis Clark 07:13, 14 February 2007 (UTC)

There is no reason why there should be an internal link to only the Welsh Springer Spaniel. There is no breed specific similarities here other than name. If there was going to be a see also link, it should be to the AKC's Sporting dog group (which is only a stub under gun dogs). There should exist a disambiguation page for "Springer Spaniel", but no need to link between the two breeds of springer spaniel. They are two of twenty six breeds listed under the sporting group. Acherrington 03:12, 16 February 2007 (UTC)

Okay, let's try again. This is an encyclopedia; it's for people who don't already know about a subject. One of the values that editors add is to enable readers to find what they are looking for even when they are unsure about what it is called.

It's important to make clear to readers that English Springers and Welsh Springers are different breeds. But a lot of people have just heard "springer spaniel" (and even that doesn't keep them from mistaking my springer for a setter). One solution would be to have a disambiguation link, something like "For other breeds with similar names, see Springer Spaniel" at the top of both articles. Another solution is the current one, to have a "see also" reference from each breed to the other. I can't think of any other solution than these two for helping people who have just heard "springer spaniel", but got to the article in some manner other than searching "springer spaniel", to know whether they are at the right breed. And it needs to be done the same way for both articles.--Curtis Clark 04:10, 16 February 2007 (UTC)

Bench champions

I reverted the elimination of the Westminster best-in-show; it's not like Westminster is some local show and these dogs were only competing against other ESS. I agree that field champions should be included as well, especially springers that have bested other breeds in national competitions.--Curtis Clark 03:03, 30 March 2007 (UTC)

Wikipedians with Springers

If you are a Wikipedian and have springer(s) then consider adding the following template to your User page:

This user is followed by their English Springer Spaniel(s).

{{User:Mikebar/UBX/User English Springer Spaniel}}

Mikebar 10:54, 15 April 2007 (UTC)

Copy/paste of breed standard

I have twice removed tables from this article which are full quotes from various country's kennel clubs (or equivalent). Cite the breed standards, paraphrase them, but to simply copy text across whole is not the right thing to do - it is copyright infringement in my opinion. --TimTay (talk) 22:20, 24 February 2008 (UTC)

Quotes aren't necessarily copyright infringements (see WP:QUOTE). These boxes are the consistent way that the dog articles are set up (see golden retriever, labrador retriever, chihuahua (dog), etc.) If you don't like the idea of this, you'd have to check out the pages as a whole, rather than target one specific breed & make it inconsistent with the rest. Perhaps visit Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Dogs, and I bet that they could better assist you. Thanks, нмŵוτнτ 23:27, 24 February 2008 (UTC)

Actually, it's an issue for all the breeds. Copyright law is complex and varies among different countries, but in the US (where en.wikipedia is hosted), you'd be right about a single quote. But inasmuch as you would eventually reproduce the standards for every breed in Wikipedia, the copyright holder might very well claim foul, since a substantial and important part of the work would be duplicated.--Curtis Clark (talk) 02:09, 25 February 2008 (UTC)

Yes, I think this issue should be discussed. However, it should be mentioned in a larger forum, rather than on a particular breed's page. нмŵוτнτ 02:12, 25 February 2008 (UTC)

Sorry, but WP:QUOTE doesn't cover this - and besides the quotes are not attributed. The AKC is very specific about copyright and this material is a blatant infringement and must be removed from this and other articles. --TimTay (talk) 09:02, 25 February 2008 (UTC)

Yes, they are attributed. The attribution stands out even more than the quote itself. Rather than targeting specific articles and performing mass taggings without discussion with those who came up with the idea is a bad idea. Let's get consensus before you do this. I'm not sure why they started doing this to all of the articles, but let's start up a conversation with those who originally placed the templates. нмŵוτнτ 13:44, 25 February 2008 (UTC)

Please show me exactly where the cut and pasted text is cited. Did you read the AKC policy? It seems pretty clear to me. As for the copyvio tag, leave them be for now and let an administrator decide. I won't tag any more articles and will participate in a discussion at Wikiproject Dogs, which I have already initiated. --TimTay (talk) 14:18, 25 February 2008 (UTC)

To me, the AKC policy is clear. Whether they could prevail in a court of law is unclear, but they could certainly make life miserable for Wikipedia in the meantime, which means that the text cannot remain. IANAA (I am not an administrator), but I imagine the response will be to require the text to be removed from all breed pages, and then there can be a consensus as to an alternative.

Independent of the copyright issue, it's a bad idea to reproduce breed standards when the authoritative versions are available on-line. What happens when an organization changes a standard? The Wikipedia page will be out of sync until someone notices and changes it. For some breeds, this might take hours or even minutes, but for other breeds it might take months or years.--Curtis Clark (talk) 14:49, 25 February 2008 (UTC)

Personally, I think it's a bad idea to have them on the pages. They're unattractive and perhaps a copyvio. I simply want consistency throughout the breeds, which is why I want to keep this specific page like those of other breeds. I am not typically very active on dog pages as a whole, so I'm leaving it to those who are. нмŵוτнτ 15:30, 25 February 2008 (UTC)

• See Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Dogs#Copyright_violation_-_breed_standards for general discussion of the problem and my reasoning for removal. Copyright violations are removed until they are proved not to be, not the other way around. Shell ^babelfish 15:32, 25 February 2008 (UTC)

Based on the fact the the copyvio has been removed and looks unlikely to be replaced based on the discussion above and at Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Dogs#Copyright_violation_-_breed_standards I have struck this article from the report at Wikipedia:Copyright problems/2008 February 25 Jeepday (talk) 16:05, 29 March 2008 (UTC)

stuff

they are able to do lots of things the owner wats them to do.they lear very easly and try to please no matter what.they are goodin all displines and never stops to say high'they are quick to learn. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 196.25.255.194 (talk) 15:30, 12 April 2009 (UTC)

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:English Springer Spaniel/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Casliber (talk · contribs) 19:53, 8 November 2009 (UTC) Evenin' all, I will begin reviewing this article, and massage the prose as I go. Please revert any changes I make where I inadvertently change the meaning. I will post queries below. Casliber (talk · contribs) 19:53, 8 November 2009 (UTC)

• The lead needs expanding. I might have a crack at this myself. Somewhere right at the beginning it needs to mention the breed exists in two forms.

• Expanded a little, but I'll go back tomorrow with a fresh head and try to make it grammatically flow better. Miyagawa (talk) 21:59, 8 November 2009 (UTC)

• Played some more with the opening paragraph, let me know what you think. Miyagawa (talk) 22:59, 9 November 2009 (UTC)

• The tone of the article veers in the direction of a pet manual or how-to manual. This is only subtle and can be tweaked fairly readily. I will try to illustrate with some diffs and might not take too much work. I think we've pretty much fixed

this now. Casliber (talk · contribs) 23:19, 8 November 2009 (UTC)

• Rage syndrome is intriguing - is there any more data on incidence "Rare" is a little subjective for my anxiety :) Any numbers at all would be helpful here.

• Expanded it a little with an extra line from the Rage syndrome article (which I put together after working on the Springer page), and added an important reference regarding the show/field lines. Miyagawa (talk) 21:58, 8 November 2009 (UTC)

• Do the issues in the Health section apply to show-bred, field-bred or both?

• Expanded first paragraph in Health section, including reference. Miyagawa (talk) 23:52, 9 November 2009 (UTC)

• The Description section sort of leaps into discussion about the forms without mentioning first. Had me momentarily confused. Might not be needed if lead is enlarged.

• Added additional lines to the start of the description section so it should flow better now. Miyagawa (talk) 23:25, 9 November 2009 (UTC)

• Like any breed described as "good with children", an English Springer Spaniel must be accustomed to children. - this needs rewording but an alternative is not leaping to mind for me ATM.

• Reading at it fresh for the first time in a while, I think we could probably lose that entire paragraph. It seems to be a combination of generic statements about dogs followed by some stuff about Springer Rage - which is covered better in the Rage Syndrome section. Its one of the paragraphs I had left alone when tweaking the article for GA, and I feel that I should have done something with it looking at it now. Miyagawa (talk) 22:07, 8 November 2009 (UTC)

• Sounds good to me..I am not too familiar with dog breeds (and never owned one until recently), and have been taken aback at the lack of decent neutral coverage of dog breeds online, so you're breaking new ground here. Have a play with the paragraph and I'll keep and eye on it. Casliber (talk · contribs) 23:12, 8 November 2009 (UTC)

• Removed the paragraph and swapped around the Rage syndrome section. Also swapped out another temperament paragraph for one I could properly reference. Miyagawa (talk) 23:44, 9 November 2009 (UTC)

• I am wondering whether the Famous English Springer Spaniels section can be converted into a paragraph of prose or two as there are some common themes - thus an opening statement such about "Skills in detecting explosives" would then precede two examples. Similarly some comment about the Bush family as well (?) Any others :)?

• Ended up going off on a complete tangent and changed the section to a new Sniffer Dogs section. Moved the presidential information to the Notable Springer Spaniels (formerly only Champions). Also means that both sections are now illustrated too. Miyagawa (talk) 22:36, 9 November 2009 (UTC)

• Might be good to have an image of each of the subbreeds in the infobox to really highlight the differences (?)

• Managed to find an image of both types on flickr and uploaded it to WMC. It's probably not high enough quality for an infobox image, so I've placed it in the description section for now instead. Miyagawa (talk) 23:49, 8 November 2009 (UTC)

Overall, well on the way to a GA. Some paragraphs could also do with some more inline referencing (prioritise statements concerning health issues here). Cheers, Casliber (talk · contribs) 19:53, 8 November 2009 (UTC)

Okay, I think we're over the line here. Lead could be enlarged a little, and there could be a few more inline references sprinkled through the text, but not deal-breakers by any means. Nice work with the notable spaniels and sniffer dogs at the end. Casliber (talk · contribs) 02:48, 10 November 2009 (UTC)

Removal of information from lead section

Please stop removing content from the lead of this article. The lead section is supposed to summarize the contents of the entire article. Miyagawa (talk) 14:27, 3 January 2010 (UTC)

MY DOG HAS HAD 8 PUPS 6 HAVE DIED STRAIGHT AWAY DURING BIRTH, 2 STILL LIVING, WHY DID THIS HAPPEN —Preceding unsigned comment added by 94.168.52.139 (talk) 19:17, 11 February 2010 (UTC)

Reversion of information added to Presidential Pets section

I looked into the details avaliable on Joy, the Spaniel of Alexei Romanov. The only thing I can confirm is that it's indeed a spaniel, but have so far found references that cite it's a Springer, a Cocker and a King Charles Spaniel. The most reliable out of the bunch stated that it was a King Charles, and quite a few stated that it was a small spaniel which would rule out the Springer as being it's breed. Miyagawa (talk) 20:59, 13 September 2010 (UTC)

Dangling Flew

What is a dangling flew? 86.31.168.112 (talk) 20:52, 22 December 2010 (UTC)

It is something that you can successfully self-medicate, but if it persists you should see your family doctor. Of course, if you are asking about dogs that is a different thing - it is one of those stupid complicated words that dog breeders use when a simple word would do. Essentially it refers to the top lips on the side of its mouth that can dangle down on some dogs - especially ones like bloodhounds. --Simple Bob (talk) 22:27, 22 December 2010 (UTC)

A real English Springer Spaniel?

I’m no connoisseur in dogs, but I’ve often had English Cockers at home and I wonder: “Are you quite sure that the first image in the article actually represents a Springer spaniel?”. For I would have bet that it is a field-bred English Cocker Spaniel (mainly on account of its exceedingly long and low-set ears). I believe that the former image which was erased on 25 October 2008 (something like below) was much better. Excuse my rough English.--Jeanambr (talk) 20:47, 27 April 2011 (UTC)

I'm betting it is a show-bred dog as these tend to have longer ears - probably because show breeding people have forgotten what their dogs are for and just breed for form rather than function - regardless of the negative effects this has on the dogs. --Simple Bob ^{a.k.a. The Spaminator} (Talk) 21:23, 27 April 2011 (UTC)

I agree, it's almost certainly a difference of field vs bench. George Bush's former dog doesn't immediately stand out as an English Springer either because of the earset.

The image I just put up to the right is probably my favorite (and it's of the same dog), but its dimensions would make it a poor choice for the infobox. – anna 00:40, 28 April 2011 (UTC)

Anna, since I agree with you, I've inserted the image you proposed in the infobox. Should anyone disagree, reverting will be very easy. Cheers. --Jeanambr (talk) 09:19, 28 April 2011 (UTC)

It's a good looking dog and I like the picture. --Simple Bob ^{a.k.a. The Spaminator} (Talk) 11:05, 28 April 2011 (UTC)

The most ideal shot would be a dog standing sideways to the camera with it's head turned to face the camera. Miyagawa (talk) 11:21, 28 April 2011 (UTC)

Are shots with the head in profile less desirable? I do think the dog sitting is better than the previous image despite its dimensions. It strikes a nice balance between field and show type. – anna 12:48, 28 April 2011 (UTC)

Don't be constrained by what is currently available on Wikimedia Commons, because there are literally hundreds of Springer photos on Flickr that are available for transfer to Wikimedia Commons. Just go to advanced search and click all three of the creative commons options then type in your search phrase e.g. "english springer" or "springer spaniel". My absolute favourite is this action shot, and this one is good too. However, this pose is a more conventional and I love the woodland setting. --Simple Bob ^{a.k.a. The Spaminator} (Talk) 11:38, 28 April 2011 (UTC)

I love the first one, even if it's not used in the infobox. I think it could work well in the body of the article. – anna 12:48, 28 April 2011 (UTC)

better article?

i love springers how can we make this article better? — Preceding unsigned comment added by SpringerSpanielWiki (talk • contribs) 01:51, 6 February 2012 (UTC)

Assessment comment

The comment(s) below were originally left at Talk:English Springer Spaniel/Comments, and are posted here for posterity. Following several discussions in past years, these subpages are now deprecated. The comments may be irrelevant or outdated; if so, please feel free to remove this section.

This article has little to no references or citations. It sounds mostly anecdotal.

Last edited at 19:57, 24 June 2008 (UTC). Substituted at 14:32, 29 April 2016 (UTC)

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I added some content to the detection section regarding use for Water leak detection in Western Australia but it was removed. Not sure why as the reference is a government website. 49.196.61.143 (talk) 22:17, 29 August 2022 (UTC)