Talk:Rhodri Mawr

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Page name[edit]

I've moved this back from Rhodri Mawr ap Merfyn, after Seancdaug moved it there, in accordance with the Manual of Style. — OwenBlacker 11:42, Nov 12, 2004 (UTC)

Project Wales[edit]

Rate for Wales project as Start/Mid. I suggest the major princes should be at least mid importance.--Cynnydd 16:31, 21 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Dude was a hero of Welsh history and the font of the entire later dynasty: High. — LlywelynII 13:28, 5 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Lineage and Inheritance[edit]

I have a family tree that has been in my family for about a hundred years that has a "Rodri Mawr" in it, which i understood to be this same person since it has the same dates. My tree states that Rhodri's mother was Eshylt, who this site has listed as the mother of Merfyn Frych ap Gwriad's mother. I don't know whther my claim is valid but I didn't want to change what the article already said. Jamescat (talk) 21:03, 22 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

James - there are at least two different pedigrees for Rhodri showing Eshylt as either his mother or his grandmother. Nobody knows which one is correct.James Frankcom (talk) 16:02, 17 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Sources for fixing this article[edit]

This guy does an excellent job of smack-talking this Wikipedia article. Although obviously we do have to tell the story of the surviving primary sources, however hagiographic they are, we should also include more of his arguments or his sources' and address the major factual errors he brings up (e.g., Rotri was not the first king to be called 'Great' nor the first to rule most of Wales). — LlywelynII 13:28, 5 February 2013 (UTC) Also,[reply]

Nora K. Chadwick (1963). Celtic Britain. Thames and Hudson.
John Edward Lloyd (1911). A history of Wales: from the earliest times to the Edwardian conquest. Longmans, Green & Co.

are fine works – although note aforementioned guy's objection to citing Chadwick on this era (she's copying) – but references w/o line references are worse than useless. They create the illusion that the page is well-sourced when it may be anything but (indeed, as new editors come in, it will be certain that new assertions will no longer be based on the claimed source texts). — LlywelynII 14:24, 5 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Children[edit]

Anarawd, Cadell, and Merfyn we've got articles on. Tudwal the Lame, not yet (if there's even enough to make one). I assume that's all the boys? But do we have any info on his daughters? Was the Elen ferch Rhodri who wed Owain ap Hywel in Glywysing probably the daughter of this Rhodri? — $Llywelyn II$ 17:44, 20 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Reference to Alfred the Great[edit]

I am no expert on Welsh history but I do know the claim that "the Wessex forces under Alfred the Great were fighting Vikings in East Anglia at the time" [877] is completely wrong. Alfred was not fighting anyone in 877 as far as we know, and certainly not in East Anglia. His only foray into East Anglia was by boat in the mid-880s. In 877 he could barely control Wessex and hold it against Viking insurgents let alone venture into neighbouring kingdoms.

Dantes Warden (talk) 13:28, 5 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion[edit]

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:

Rhodri Mawr personal arms.png

Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 16:26, 10 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move 3 October 2023[edit]

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: Moved. Clear consensus to move below (closed by non-admin page mover) estar8806 (talk) ★ 00:20, 20 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Rhodri ap Merfyn → Rhodri Mawr – The most common form of his name in English-language sources, as shown by this n-gram. Hywel Dda is a similar case where the form with the epithet in Welsh is the most common variant in English. Ham II (talk) 07:25, 3 October 2023 (UTC) — Relisting. Natg 19 (talk) 22:52, 12 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I would argue that Rhodri ap Merfyn's epithet as 'the Great/Mawr' portrays a biased view of him, and it's worth noting that this epithet is not commonly used until the early 13th century. When looking at wikipedia articles about other historical figures from Wales with similar nicknames like 'Great/Mawr,' they are often referred to with their full names, such as Llywelyn ab Iorwerth. Lemonaurhywiol (talk) 17:56, 3 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I've already mentioned Rhodri's grandson Hywel Dda (Hywel "the Good") as a Welsh figure with a similar epithet. The recent move of Llywelyn the Great to Llywelyn ab Iorwerth was based on usage (though it did depend on conflating instances of "ab" and "ap"; the evidence otherwise wasn't very clear-cut) rather than a desire to avoid bias; if "Llywelyn Fawr" or "Llywelyn the Great" had been found to be the most common version one of those would be the article title. "Rhodri ap Merfyn" fails WP:COMMONNAME as "Hywel ap Cadell" would for his grandson. Ham II (talk) 09:38, 7 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Support per the Ngrams shown by nominator. Per WP:POVNAME, epithets that include value judgments can still be acceptable if that epithet is part of the figure's WP:COMMONNAME. ModernDayTrilobite (talk • contribs) 14:36, 11 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Support per nom.--Ortizesp (talk) 23:58, 15 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Support per above. Dank Jae 12:11, 16 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Support per nom. Clear WP:COMMONNAME. -- Necrothesp (talk) 13:35, 17 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.