Talk:The Clovers

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I have confirmed that this material was posted by the author; see Talk:The Mello-Moods. Sorry that this wasn't clear. --rbrwr± 13:39, 30 Mar 2005 (UTC)


This article, aside from being in need of being Wikified, is basically a direct word-for-word copy of the article listed. It doesn't contain a lot of real facts and isn't very NPOV, so I'm rewriting it mostly from the ground up (using Goldberg's article as a source, of course). JeremyMcCracken 16:28, 14 October 2005 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:The Clovers.jpg[edit]

Nuvola apps important.svg

Image:The Clovers.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images lacking such an explanation can be deleted one week after being tagged, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot (talk) 06:23, 24 January 2008 (UTC)

Citations & References[edit]

See Wikipedia:Footnotes for an explanation of how to generate footnotes using the <ref(erences/)> tags Nhl4hamilton (talk) 04:26, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

The Clovers original lineup, the rival groups and later career members[edit]

I've removed two external links. There's already an inline ref with a link to the external site. Only one link to the website is needed.

I also wish to refocus the article towards the original line-up circa 1946 to 1961. The split in 1961 seems to have created two versions of The Clovers and there were no more hits by either group. I have to tighten (everything relevant will be kept) the later period information and adjust the focus of the article to the original line-up that appeared on the hit records.

Sluffs (talk) 16:21, 8 March 2013 (UTC)

Chronology problems with this article[edit]

This article is a bit disjointed on the chronology. "Fool Fool Fool" may have been released earlier then it appears here. I'll keep adding the releases and hopefully I should be able to sort out the release dates into some orderly sense. Please feel free to correct any dates I've got wrong.

Sluffs (talk) 12:55, 11 March 2013 (UTC)

Harris - gun for hire or fully paid up member[edit]

I'm going to leave the statement that Harris became an integral part of their sound. Listening to The Larks or The Orioles you can hear the same sort of guitar work. It was the instrument of its day and is featured on hundreds of R&B records. However in this case Harris was not hired as a session or band guitarist and he is featured in all their publicity shots.

Sluffs (talk) 14:29, 12 March 2013 (UTC)

Infobox - list of past members[edit]

I'm going to adjust the names and how they are listed in the Infobox past members section. I want to put the past members in an order related to the chronological releases or even better who sang or appeared on the hits. I think Billy Mitchell, Charlie White and Bill Harris should appear at the top.

Sluffs (talk) 14:39, 14 March 2013 (UTC)

Inclusion of other releases not added yet[edit]

The tracks "Nip Sip", "Down in the Alley" and "Your Tender Lips" need to be added. I'll do the research and find out where they placed on the charts. I may add a little bit about The Diamonds and Bobby Vee versions of the same songs released by The Clovers though I'm not too sure at the moment if these artists are really relevant to the article.

Sluffs (talk) 14:50, 14 March 2013 (UTC)

And what about their song "The Rotten Cocksuckers Ball?" -- (talk) 22:46, 5 March 2015 (UTC)

The break-up and formation of two new groups[edit]

This section is confusing. Trying to write about two parallel projects is going to pose some issues to do with chronology. I imagine (I've not listened extensively to the songs post-break) the quality of the material from both groups will be very high. All of them were seasoned professionals with more than a modicum of talent. I'm not too sure how to approach the chronology - one way might be to do a discography of notable releases (barring moments where commercial considerations led to less-well received releases). I expect to find some musical gems from both groups. Harold Winley (bass) also needs to be considered in view of Paul Winley, Porwin and Winley Records. It is my (limited) experience that "bass" anything (singers or bass guitarists) forms the bedrock for the more expressive nature of "lead" anything (singers or lead guitarists) - good buildings need solid foundations.

I am aware that Harold Lucas was one of the original founders and may be the "glue" that kept The Clovers going from their earliest days as schoolboys in Washington D.C. - from "the concept" to "the reality of national success" and the "closing of the original chapter" - Lucas was there all the way. I'll try to write a concise representation of the later period.

Placeholder for tracks for consideration:

Stop Pretending - Bailey's group (1963) on the Porwin label

Poor Baby b/w He Sure Could Hypnotize (1965) on the Port label - Lucas and Bailey (may be the last recording that Bailey made)

Please Mr Sun b/w "Gimme Gimme Gimme" - Tippie and The Clovermen (Harold Lucas)

Sluffs (talk) 12:51, 16 March 2013 (UTC)

Matthew McQuater Notice[edit]

There seems to be no reliable date for the death of McQuater.

One site states "died Dec 19, 2000, aged 73":

Another site states "died November 6, 2002, Washington, DC":

The angelfire site may be the correct date. I'll leave it open at the moment and who knows maybe someone out there will provide the correct date.

The Goldberg Discoveries article (1997) said that he moved to Dallas and became a businessman and that he had suffered a stroke.

He was interviewed by a reporter in 1997 and this appears on many sites but no date, interviewer or publication appears on these sites but I imagine they're referring to the 1997 Goldberg article.

He did move to Dallas. Here's an article from the Dallas Observer:

The date on this site corresponds with the Angelfire pdf:

In view of the Dallas Observer interview and the date given on Angelfire and Ancientfaces I'm going to go with this date of death: "died Dec 19, 2000, aged 73".

If you know any different then please update article.

Sluffs (talk) 16:11, 16 March 2013 (UTC)

The Marv Goldberg article[edit]

I've relied heavily on the Goldberg article (see refs). It is the most comprehensive article on The Clovers available. The neutral viewpoint that Wikipedia editors must take when writing an article means that I've drawn on the "facts" that I've found in Goldberg. To give credit to the Goldberg article and to encourage visitors to his site I would like to say that for fans of R&B music (or Doo Wop) a visit to his site should prove pleasurable and will offer an insight into areas that Wikipedia may avoid under their remit as an encyclopedia: personal decisions, secondary persons, record reviews and extensive discography.

Sluffs (talk) 15:27, 20 March 2013 (UTC)

Trademark Electronic Search System (TESS)[edit]

The names given in the article for the registrants of the 1981 trademark application are available using TESS. I've linked the ref to a different page at the United States Patent and Trademark Office. The TESS is session limited so was not useable as a ref. You can check the details using TESS at the site - click Tess and select Basic Word Mark Search (New User) - enter The Clovers and check the "Exact Phrase" option. The TSDR record that is used as a ref gives just the group name The Clovers as the registrants. So you have to use TESS - also Raymond Green is missing from the registrants list. He is mentioned on other third party sites but this is the official government record of the registrants - maybe the application was amended later or I've missed seeing his name. A bit or research needed I imagine.

Sluffs (talk) 21:19, 16 October 2013 (UTC)

I've removed the ref link to the official trademark record. Its not possible to link to the record. Use TESS and TSDR to access details. I've added the trademark application serial number into the article.

Sluffs (talk) 21:41, 16 October 2013 (UTC)