Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/UK general election, 2005

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UK general election, 2005 was proposed for deletion. This page is an archive of the discussion about the proposed deletion. This page is no longer live. Further comments should be made on the article's talk page rather than here so that this page is preserved as an historic record. The result of the debate was to keep the article.

(Note: merged discussions from two separate VFD pages -- sjorford 11:03, 10 Nov 2004 (UTC))

(from Wikipedia:Votes for deletion/Uk general election, 2005:)

  • There has been no announcement of a general election in the UK for 2005, and indeed there is no constitutional reason for one to occur at all in 2005, therefore thispage is highly premautre. It is also highly speculative, and NPOV. Therefore it should be deleted, until HM The Queen disolves Parliament. Astrotrain 20:32, 7 Nov 2004 (UTC)
    • Uhm, it's highly probable there will be a General Election in 2005, but it has not been announced yet. Darksun 20:39, 7 Nov 2004 (UTC)
  • Keep. A 2005 election (probably in Feb or May) is seen as probable by much of the country, is in keeping with past practice of incumbent governments (hanging on for five years before '92 and '97 arguably being the exceptions not the rule), and indeed is already being planned for by political groups. It's not baseless theorising, it's a most-likely-case prediction. It is by definition speculative, but not in any way I can see to object to - it gives an overall view of the parties plans, which very few would disagree with, has a short note on Scots recalculation and Ulster politics, and demonstrates what the redistricting will mean by applying it to the current house (which is something I was quite interested to see). None of this is contentious stuff, and I don't see it as NPOV either. (Admittedly, it might just be conforming to my political POV, but I don't think that's the factor here <g>). Shimgray 21:24, 7 Nov 2004 (UTC)
  • Strong Keep - Rational speculation is absolutely valid. Rename to Possible UK General Election 2005/2006 (Assuming no Modification to the Country's Unwritten Constitution) if the notion of pre-empting Her Majesty offends. Adambisset 21:56, 7 Nov 2004 (UTC)
  • Delete: Speculation. When it is announced, write a page on it, but not until then. The future does not exist. Geogre 22:36, 7 Nov 2004 (UTC)
  • Keep, this article about the speculation and possibilities, not a planned election, and thus verifiable and encyclopedic —siroχo 22:53, Nov 7, 2004 (UTC)
    • Would it be better to have an article on "the next UK election" - on the form of U.S. presidential election, 2008 - but without a date? The election will happen, will almost certainly happen in the form described in the article under discussion - the only speculation on the future is the date and a note that there is likely to be redistricting. The legal system of the UK is such that a specific election hasn't been called, but the speculation there is almost certainly going to be accurate whenever it ends up occuring (with the excpetion of the date, of course). Shimgray 00:41, 8 Nov 2004 (UTC)
      • Sure, the title should be appropriate to the articles content, I'm not an expert, since i live in the US, but I do see this information as belonging somewhere —siroχo 19:41, Nov 8, 2004 (UTC)
  • Delete. Speculation by an editor is inherently original research. "Rational speculation is absolutely valid." Not in an encyclopaedia, it's not. Articles about speculation, maybe. The analysis of the composition of the house is demented. The whole idea of an election is to recompose it, so that "This means that the House of Commons currently controlled by Labour (with 413 seats at the last election) will not be able to be used as a guide to how the parties have done" is obvious! We'll know how the parties have done when they actually have the election.Dr Zen 00:45, 8 Nov 2004 (UTC)
  • Strong Keep. Plenty of other articles about forthcoming elections in other countries, and reasonable to assume that this one will be in 2005 at this stage; can always be renamed if this situation changes. Article is in NPOV and does not indulge in speculation. Dbiv 01:32, 8 Nov 2004 (UTC)
    • Well, do indulge me, Dbiv. What was there in this article that I couldn't figure out for myself or that wouldn't be more reasonably contained in a broader article about how the UK is administered? Nothing beyond the speculation about when the election will be! Had the article been in the least bit interesting or well written, that might have been forgivable, but it wasn't and it isn't.Dr Zen 03:35, 8 Nov 2004 (UTC)
  • Keep, but possibly rename to reflect the fact it may be in 2006 aswell. It's not unencyclopedic to speculate about future events, if this goes then so should the 2008 presidential page, and every other page about anything that will ever happen in the future. Darksun 10:30, 8 Nov 2004 (UTC)
  • But there might not be an election in 2006 either! The UK government can postpone elections in times of war or crisis. It would be better to wait for an event to be confirmed before an article is created. Speculation has been on whether Tony Blair would resign this year, and that hasn't happened. We should be careful about what he think might happen. I can't see Tony Blair calling an election if things in Iraq take an even worse turn for example. Astrotrain 11:21, 8 Nov 2004 (UTC)
    • So can the US President. Darksun 20:20, 8 Nov 2004 (UTC)
  • Keep - Canada has the same rules with regards to election timing, and Canadian federal election, 2004 existed for almost a year before that election was actually called. - SimonP 16:15, Nov 8, 2004 (UTC)
    • Canada does not have the same rules, it has a codified constitution which specifies time, UK rules are different. Astrotrain 16:59, 8 Nov 2004 (UTC)
      • No it doesn't, the rules are essentially the same as in the UK. - SimonP 17:19, Nov 8, 2004 (UTC)
  • Keep - rename to UK general election, 2005/06 if you really want, but the article itself is perfectly valid and is not speculation, as there will be a general election in the next 18 months. sjorford 10:36, 9 Nov 2004 (UTC)
  • Keep. It is more likely that it will be in 2005 and you could always redirect. Anyway, keep the information as there are noteworthy things that have already occurred. Capitalistroadster 10:41, 9 Nov 2004 (UTC)
  • Keep. Rename if necessary. zoney ♣ talk 22:05, 9 Nov 2004 (UTC)

(from Wikipedia:Votes for deletion/UK general election, 2005:)

  • No election has been called in the UK for 2005, and indeed there is no constitutional reason or obligation for to be held in 2005 at all. This article is just speculation, and not encyclopedic in the slightest. It should be deleted, and only IF a 2005 general election is called in the UK, should a page could be created. Astrotrain 20:11, 7 Nov 2004 (UTC)
Keep. Just because it hasn't been called doesn't make it unencyclopaedic. In any case, there will be an election in 2005 or 2006, and if it isn't called next year we can simply rename the article accordingly. The article discusses issues relevant to the election, and will no doubt be fleshed out as the time nears and it becomes clear what the election is being fought over. It also discusses changes in Scottish constituencies, for example, and this is a perfectly valid topic for Wikipedia, best included in an article about the next general election. If you're looking for precedent we also have, amongst others, New Zealand general election 2005, a huge article on U.S._presidential_election,_2008 and even one on U.S._presidential_election,_2012. Will you be listing these for deletion? — Trilobite (Talk) 07:38, 8 Nov 2004 (UTC)
Keep. The next UK general election is all but certain to be held in 2005, whether it be in the early months, the spring or the autumn. It is considered that if a Prime Minister goes well beyond four years of his mandate, then he or she is doing that because they know they have a low chance of winning. Yes, the election could be held in 2006, but it is unlikely to under the present circumstances, and even then, that bridge can be crossed regarding this article if and when it is required. I agree with the user above, the articles on elections in other countries should be deleted if this one is. — MM2K 08:37, 8 Nov 2004 (UTC)
K The date itself is almost a done deal - first Thursday in May is a long electoral tradition in British politics. Chris 21:38, 10 Nov 2004 (UTC)
  • Strong Keep. The 2005 general election is being held on May 5th 2005. This comes from the Conservative Party (the major opposition) who announced in on a national radio station. Although general elections are called by the PM, the media is always the first to know!
  • Keep. We all know it's gonna happen, I don't see any problem with their being a preemptive article about it, much like there are preemptive articles on upcoming elections in other jurisdictions. — OwenBlacker 15:15, Nov 11, 2004 (UTC)

This page is now preserved as an archive of the debate and, like other '/delete' pages is no longer 'live'. Subsequent comments on the issue, the deletion or on the decision-making process should be placed on the relevant 'live' pages. Please do not edit this page.

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